RADIANCE DISCUSSION GROUP This directory contains mail from the Radiance discussion group, for those who are looking at old questions and answers exchanged among users. NOTE: As of August, 1997, the discussion group archives have become part of the regular digest distribution. This was done to reduce overhead administrative time, and to be sure that all Radiance users benefit from the valuable material discussed on both lists. The files are organized by date, and all mail including subscription requests is included. In this way, users may at least learn when someone new has signed on. The dates are in simple YY_MM_DD format, for chronological listing, and each file contains all mail between the last date and this one. The file "current" contains all discussion group mail received since the last dated file. To subscribe to the Radiance discussion group, please send mail to "radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov", saying you would like to subscribe. There are two lists to which you may subscribe, the moderated announcement and digest mailing list, and the unmoderated discussion group. Usually people subscribe either to the announcement list only, or to both lists. DO NOT SEND ADMINISTRATIVE REQUESTS TO THE LIST ITSELF. It makes a very poor introduction, since it says to people, "I don't even know how to use a mailing list." Being a novice is fine and good, but a novice who doesn't read directions is rarely appreciated. Also, just in general it is a good idea to subscribe to a list before you send mail to it -- that way, you can see any responses(!). The mailing list address is "radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov". ========================================================= From greg Wed Sep 14 11:27:38 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:20:31 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: New Radiance discussion group Status: R As you know if your received and read the Radiance digest I just posted, I have decided to start an unmoderated discussion group for Radiance users. To get the group started, I went through my list of e-mail addresses and picked out people I thought would be interested in such a group, and your name was among them. If you think I picked your name by mistake, please send mail to radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov and tell me to remove you from the list. Thanks. -Greg From bcurrey@neumann.une.edu.au Wed Sep 14 16:19:54 1994 Return-Path: From: Meridian Subject: Hello all..... To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:15:15 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 981 Status: R Hello people, Its good to see that this group has been formed, so I would like to extend my own personal thanks to Greg for the time and effort he puts into support for the software. Anyways, lets get the ball rolling. My first question to all the radiance users is, "Who has a decent cloud texturing function?" Gensky only produces a blue sky, and I would like to see some white fluffy clouds.... Thanks for any input.... *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* * Boyd | "Quick to Judge, Quick to Anger, * * bcurrey@neumann.une.edu.au | Slow to Understand. * * ------------------------------| Ignorance, and Prejudice, and Fear * * University of New England | Walk Hand in Hand." * * Australia | -Neil Piert * *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* From jlm@gauss.univ-mrs.fr Wed Sep 14 23:09:36 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 08:08:42 +0200 From: Jean-Louis Maltret To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: R SUBSCRIBE Jean-Louis MALTRET jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr From novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk Thu Sep 15 04:34:20 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 13:34:28 +0200 (METDST) From: Shaul Baruch Subject: Discussion Group To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hi Greg, I would like to subcribe to the Radiance Users Discussion Group. My e-mail address: novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk best regards Shaul. From shirley@cs.indiana.edu Thu Sep 15 05:18:32 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 07:18:25 -0500 From: "peter shirley" To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: add me to the list Status: R Please add me to the list shirley@cs.indiana.edu From x450b05@rds1121.goodyear.com Thu Sep 15 06:51:25 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 09:37:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Demerling Subject: radiance discussion group To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Please subscribe me (Eric Demerling) at edemerling@goodyear.com Thank you in advance Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Demerling edemerling@goodyear.com Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. Applelink goodyear.res Technical Computer Operations - Dept 450B Voice 216.796.8700 P.O. Box 3531 Fax 216.796.6247 Akron, OH 44309-3531 IBMMAIL USGTRDS4 U.S.A. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From matt.demsey@mccaw.com Thu Sep 15 13:22:37 1994 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v112.1) From: Matt Demsey Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 13:22:47 -0700 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Please subscribe me to the discussion list Reply-To: Matt.Demsey@mccaw.com (Loki D. Quaeler) Status: R Thanks, (this is my most permanent mailing address) Matt.Demsey@Mccaw.com thanks, ldq From mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz Thu Sep 15 13:34:36 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 08:29:23 +1200 From: Mike Donn To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: R subscribe mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Donn Phone +64 4 802 6221 School of Architecture Fax +64 4 802 6204 Victoria University of Wellington e-mail mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz PO Box 600 New Zealand From artlite@iaccess.za Thu Sep 15 16:42:17 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 02:21:26 +0000 From: Artlite - Gavin Donaldson-Selby Subject: Subscribe unmoderated discussion group To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R subscribe From mdonn@arch.vuw.ac.nz Thu Sep 15 16:46:26 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:46:09 +1200 From: Mike Donn To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: R subscribe mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Donn Phone +64 4 802 6221 School of Architecture Fax +64 4 802 6204 Victoria University of Wellington e-mail mike.donn@vuw.ac.nz PO Box 600 New Zealand From chas Thu Sep 15 16:53:45 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 94 16:47:40 PDT From: chas (Charles Ehrlich) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Cloudy Sky Modelling Cc: bcurey@neumann.une.edu.au Status: R Here, here for the nine+ years of work Greg has put into Radiance, much of it on his own time! A round of applause for the many devoted Radiance users who have suffered though a very difficult product development cycle and, as tactfully as possible, told Greg what really needed to get done with the software. He and I discussed forming this group to further elicit constructive feedback about how Radiance works and what would make it work better. So, don't hold anything back! I plan to be checking in with this list regularly. I would like to see people post more than just their questions hoping for answers...but also what great things everyone has been able to accomplish with Radiance. Now about sky modeling. I don't have a cloud function, but what has worked for me is to use a fisheye projection image of a sky with clouds. Then map this onto the sky with a colorpict pattern. I don't have a fisheye camera to use, so I just drew one by hand with Adobe Photoshop. I also created some trees and distant mountains with snow-covered peaks for interest. Check out any Astronomy or Sky and Telescope magazine for a hint on how to do this...in fact, one could scan in one of these constellation drawings and use it for a nighttime sky (after cleaning-up a bit). I'm re-creating this from memory because I can't find my original. Please don't expect it to run without some tweaking. The idea came from Greg's Conference Room model in which a fisheye view was applied to a window. (ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/models/conf.tar.Z) !gensky 9 15 12 skyfunc colorpict cloudpat 9 red green blue clouds.pic fisheye.cal fish_u fish_v -x 90 0 0 #note 1, the -x 90 is to bring the coordinate system of the #fisheye.cal function into alignment with the coordinate #system of your fisheye view pixmap. Specifics are left #to the reader to figure out and verify. #hint 1a, if you are assuming that you have taken an image from #a lens with exactly 180 degrees of view, the first (top) scanline of #the image file is tangent to a point in the north sky exactly #at the horizon. The center of our circular image is Zenith. #note 2, the clouds.pic image has been exposure corrected #to average with pfilt -e 1, two-pass. #note 3, I recommend adjusting #the average brightness of the sky up a bit if you are trying #to simulate clouds with bright reflections by placing a #positive float value in the colorpict pattern above. This #correlates with my experience of some cloudy days (in SF) #having much brighter skys than clear days because of cloud reflections. cloudpat glow skyglow 0 0 4 .742 .719 1.00 -.5 skyglow source sky 0 0 4 0 0 1 180 Hope you all find this useful, and fun. If you'd like, I'll hunt down my hand-drawn sky and install it on hobbes. Greg's horizontally oriented fisheye pic is in the conference room distribution as skySconf.pic (the view from the LBL, Building 90, third floor conference room). -Chas +-------------------------------+------------------------+ | Charles Ehrlich | Radiance Consulting | | Space & Light | Lighting Analysis | | radiance@innernet.com | Daylighting Design | | 842 Folsom St. #197, SF, CA | Energy Efficiency | | 415 905-4438 24hr messages | Arch'tl 3D Modeling | +-------------------------------+------------------------+ From crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au Thu Sep 15 20:10:38 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 11:01:03 WST From: crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au (Simon "fish" Crone) Subject: Re: Hello all..... To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: R Greetings, |> Its good to see that this group has been formed, so I would like |> to extend my own personal thanks to Greg for the time and effort he |> puts into support for the software. That make at least two of us! |> Anyways, lets get the ball rolling. My first question to all the |> radiance users is, "Who has a decent cloud texturing function?" Gensky |> only produces a blue sky, and I would like to see some white fluffy |> clouds.... I don't have fluffy clouds but I do have some sky pictures and a map calculation file for mapping these pictures onto a source object. They are available from the main radiance distribution site... ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/libraries/Rad_skies.tar.Z Or a slightly more up to date version ( with added error checking ! ) can be obtained from my home WWW site.. http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/radiance/Skymap/skymap.html I have also turned some e-mail correspondance that I have had about Radiance materials and function files into an html document. There may be some stuff in there of interest. Its URL is.. http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/radiance/rad_lib.html Finally ( as this mail is starting to look like a commercial :-) if you are interested in computer based Architectural Visualisation you might like to check out our image gallery. Its URL is.. http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/gallery.html Any feedback on any the above will be welcomed. Regards, SImon ________________________________________________________________________________ | | | | Simon Crone. - Masters Student. | He who dies with the | | | most toys - Wins! | | Email:crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au | | | http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/simon.html | ( Ancient coffee | | Mail:School of Architecture and Planning, | mug proverb .... ) | | Curtin University of Technology, | | | GPO Box U1987, Perth, Western Australia | Phone: +619 351-7310 | |___________________________________________________|__________________________| From mat@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz Thu Sep 15 23:41:42 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 18:16:26 +1200 (NZT) From: mat@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz (M Carr) Subject: Hi, and re. fluffy clouds To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov (radiance discussion) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 905 Status: RO Hi I mailed this to Meridian, and thought I'd make it available for all those other sky modellers out there. If you have a graphical WWW client then have a look at http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/Graphics/radiance/cloudy.html This is a parametric sky colouring function that uses the noise functions in Radiance to generate a pattern depending on the ray direction. It is made to be used with source type geometry. See also http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/Graphics/radiance/materials/materials.html Byebye Mat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matiu Carr School of Architecture Property and Planning University of Auckland email: m.carr@auckland.ac.nz New Zealand WWW: http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Fri Sep 16 11:47:41 1994 Return-Path: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance Discussion List From: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil ( Jerry Ballard ) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 13:41:39 -0500 Sender: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Status: R Hi Greg! Please add me to the unmoderated discussion list of Radiance users. Thanks, Jerry Ballard +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ | US Army Engineer WES | | | Environmental Lab | FAX: (601) 634-3726 | | ATTN: Jerry Ballard (WESEN-C) | Voice: (601) 634-2946 | | 3909 Halls Ferry Rd. | e-mail: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil | | Vicksburg, MS 39180 | | +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ Any opinions given are my own and are in no way meant to reflect official US Government, Department of Defense, or US Army Corps of Engineers policies or positions. __* (________________________ / / 0 /o [] |\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From terry@CS.Scarolina.EDU Fri Sep 16 12:08:33 1994 Return-Path: From: Terry Huntsberger Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 15:07:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 33 Status: R subscribe terry@cs.scarolina.edu From vanwyk@mail.unm.edu Fri Sep 16 12:38:03 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 13:37 MDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: vanwyk@mail.unm.edu (Skip Van Wyk) Status: R subscribe unmoderated From phils@MIT.EDU Fri Sep 16 12:42:58 1994 Return-Path: To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Pic placing in autocad. Reply-To: phils@MIT.EDU (Philip R. Thompson) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 15:38:18 EDT From: +----------------------+-------------------------------------------+ Status: R If you find placing pictures to be rather hit or miss on non-orthoganal surfaces and use autocad/ADS (not autolisp), then I may have a routine for you. It involves compiling ADS C code. At some point I may get around to removing ADS dependencies, but I don't plan on getting to that any time soon so I'd best make it available now. Included is an more generic affine registration routine for transforming objects in autocad. I'd like to initially mail it individuals before making it generally available via ftp Philip From pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU Fri Sep 16 13:07:45 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 14:07:26 -0600 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (Pat Burns) Status: R subscribe **************************************************************** Pat Burns Director of Westnet & Department of Mechanical Engineering 303/491-7260 303/491-6120 303/491-1958 (FAX) 303/491-1055 (FAX) Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 pburns@westnet.net **************************************************************** From armj@MIT.EDU Fri Sep 16 13:18:33 1994 Return-Path: From: armj@MIT.EDU To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Subject: Re: your message Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 16:18:17 EDT Status: R Thanks for your reply. I want to subscribe to the Radiance-related mailing list. - Sorry I have some problems unloading at the moment - - I hope it works now - Axel From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Fri Sep 16 14:02:35 1994 Return-Path: From: "David A. Vohwinkel" Subject: Please subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 17:01:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 313 Status: R Please add me to all radiance groups. Thanks -Dave- -- David A Vohwinkel Unix Consulting ^ ^ vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu & Operations 0 0 @ The State University of New York at Buffalo --------------oOO-(_)-OOo---------------------------------------------------- \-/ From vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi Fri Sep 16 14:23:03 1994 Return-Path: From: Olli Vinberg Subject: discussion list To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 00:22:31 +0300 (EET DST) Reply-To: Olli@cc.helsinki.fi, Vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi, Organization: Kampela-Club Reply-To: Olli.Vinberg@Helsinki.FI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 327 Status: R I'd like to subscribe to the discussion-list. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- - Olli Vinberg (AMIGO) -- The University of Helsinki - - vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi -- Department of Computer Science - -------------------------------------------------------------------- From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Fri Sep 16 20:37:24 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 22:37:18 -0500 From: "Eric Ost" To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe radiance-discuss Status: R subscribe radiance-discuss From jeremy@pollock.ece.curtin.edu.au Sat Sep 17 00:02:45 1994 Return-Path: From: Jeremy Subject: Unmoderated sign-up. To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 15:02:41 WST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R Hiya Greg, Yup, this is a request from another blind sheep to be added to your unmoderated mailing list of simulated reality, :). Thanks, Jeremy IMAGE Technology Group, Electronic Engineering, Curtin University of Technology, Perth, Western Australia, Australia. From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRGEDI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL Sun Sep 18 05:14:08 1994 Return-Path: <@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRGEDI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 94 14:11:32 IST From: Guedi Capeluto Subject: Subscribe Radiance discussion list To: Greg Ward Status: R Please, subscribe me to the Radiance discussion list. Guedi Capeluto-Fac. of Architecture. Technion IIT. e-mail: arrguedi@technion.technion.ac.il Thanks, -guedi. From dave@metapro.metapro.DIALix.oz.au Sun Sep 18 19:04:06 1994 Return-Path: From: dave@metapro.metapro.DIALix.oz.au (David Eddy) Subject: Subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:23:51 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 235 Status: RO SUBSCRIBE David Eddy dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au Greg, Please subscribe me to the radiance mailing list. By the way, I _love_ radiance! -- David Eddy, Metapro Systems Pty Ltd. -- dave@metapro.DIALix.oz.au #include From mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr Sun Sep 18 19:04:53 1994 Return-Path: From: mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr (Emmanuel Mogenet) Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:37:46 +0900 (JST) Reply-To: mgix@jpn.thomson-di.fr X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 30 Status: RO subscribe mgix@thomson-di.fr From sk8@liverpool.ac.uk Mon Sep 19 00:35:10 1994 Return-Path: From: "Mr. M.J. Lupton" Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:34:40 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 89 Status: RO please subscribe me to the radiance discussion list. Martin Lupton sk8@liverpool.ac.uk From msz_ibp@IPA.FhG.de Mon Sep 19 00:47:01 1994 Return-Path: Sender: msz_ibp@IPA.FhG.de Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:04:34 EDT From: "Michael Szerman; Fraunhofer-Institut f Bauphysik" Reply-To: MSZ@IBP.FhG.de To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: discussion list Status: RO Hi Greg, please put me on the RADIANCE discussion list. - Michael From @ib.rl.ac.uk,@iona.strath.ac.uk,@esru.strath.ac.uk:jon@sigma Mon Sep 19 00:48:06 1994 Return-Path: <@ib.rl.ac.uk,@iona.strath.ac.uk,@esru.strath.ac.uk:jon@sigma> Via: uk.ac.strath.iona; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:44:58 +0100 Via: esru.strath.ac.uk ([130.159.232.19]); Mon, 19 Sep 94 08:46:53 BST Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:43:25 +0000 From: jon@sigma (Jon Hand) To: radiance-request Subject: discussion list Content-Length: 148 Status: RO Please add me to the Radiance discussion list. Thanks, Jon Hand ESRU Energy Systems Division University of Strathclyde Glasgow jon@strath.ac.uk From jbi@de-montfort.ac.uk Mon Sep 19 01:22:54 1994 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:22:47 +0100 From: J B Ignacio Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 09:22:15 BST To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Hi I'd like to sign up to the unmoderated discussion group: (radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Thanks, Joven Ignacio jbi@dmu.ac.uk From neilt@spl.co.za Mon Sep 19 02:49:06 1994 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:50:37 +12000 From: Neil Thompson Subject: subscribe unmoderated To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO subscribe unmoderated neilt@splinux.spl.co.za From nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr Mon Sep 19 03:05:44 1994 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 13:05:50 +0300 From: "Nick C. Fotis" To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscription request Status: RO Hi, I would like to be added in the unmoderated Radiance mailing list. Greetings, Nick. PS. Expect to see your changes in the next version of the Resource Listing. From kathrin@prehp.physik.uni-oldenburg.de Mon Sep 19 09:01:51 1994 Return-Path: From: kathrin schwarz Subject: discussion To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 18:01:18 MESZ Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R Hi, please send me the moderated discussion list. Thanks, Kathrin Schwarz adress: kathrin@prehp1.physik.uni-oldenburg.de From stuart.lewis@lascaux.arch.gatech.edu Mon Sep 19 09:11:39 1994 Return-Path: X-Sender: stuart@archsun.arch.gatech.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 12:16:54 -0400 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: stuart.lewis@lascaux (Stuart Lewis) Subject: subscribe radiance-discuss X-Mailer: Status: RO Please subscribe me to "radiance-discuss". Stuart Lewis Georgia Institute of Technology stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu From peters@ERC.MsState.Edu Mon Sep 19 09:15:55 1994 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:17:30 -0500 From: Dana Peters To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Status: RO Greetings, Please add my name to the list of your mailing list subscribers. Thank You, -Dana Peters peters@erc.msstate.edu From mibarra@galois.dgaesc.unam.mx Mon Sep 19 10:32:36 1994 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:36:39 -0600 (CST) From: Luis M Ibarra Subject: Subscribe unmoderated To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 49 Status: R Please join me to the unmoderated list. Tanhks! From johne@cc.gatech.edu Mon Sep 19 17:31:22 1994 Return-Path: From: johne@cc.gatech.edu (Johne Parker) Subject: Radiance discussion list To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 20:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 139 Status: RO I'd like to subscribe to the new unmoderated Radiance discussion list -- please sign me up! Thanks! Johne' Parker (johne@cc.gatech.edu) From HXZZDUBIELJ@CLUSTER.NORTH-LONDON.AC.UK Tue Sep 20 04:48:16 1994 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.north-london.cluster; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 12:45:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 12:45 BST From: HXZZDUBIELJ@CLUSTER.NORTH-LONDON.AC.UK To: radiance-request Subject: request for inclusion Status: RO I sent an email yesterday, to be included on the unmoderated discussion group mailing list. I am not sure whether or not this reached you, but would like to go on the list (not twice, could you check please?) Also I would be grateful if you would let me know what size mailbox I should request from the vax operators, to minimise the chances of bouncing and subsequent removal from the mailing list. My address is: hxzzdubielj@uk.ac.unl.clstr Hoping to soon receive your reply, Jo From jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu Tue Sep 20 06:05:00 1994 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 07:04:31 +0700 From: jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu (Jon McHugh) To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: daylighting references & radiance digest Cc: pburns@carbon.lance.colostate.edu Content-Length: 602 Status: RO Yes, please put Dr. Burns on the discussion group as well as the moderated mailing list. Dr. Burns and I have been working on a similar Monte Carlo program called DAY3D and I think there may be some interesting cross-fertillization of ideas. ______________________________________ | Jonathan R. McHugh | | Dept. of Mechanical Engineering | | Colorado State University | | Fort Collins, CO 80523 | | (303) 491-7479 | | (303) 491-1055 FAX | | jmchugh@carbon.lance.colostate.edu | --------------------------------------- From greg Tue Sep 20 10:08:26 1994 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 10:01:35 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance Discussion Group Archive Status: R I have created an ftp archive directory for Radiance Discussion Group e-mail. It's in the /pub/discuss directory on hobbes.lbl.gov (128.3.12.38), and it contains all list-related e-mail, including subscription requests. As we are adding many new users to this list at this point, most of you missed what went out early on the list. Rather than repeating mail to everyone, I ask that you grab it from our anonymous ftp server if you want to be brought up to date. I will update this directory from time to time as I see necessary, and hope it will serve as a record of our discussions so we don't all have to keep a big mailbox lying around. (Lord knows I have enough of those already.) I will also put in a link on our Radiance WWW server to this directory, so that Mosaic users can access it conveniently. -Greg From lazo@bf2.bouw.tno.nl Wed Sep 21 00:13:48 1994 Return-Path: From: lazo@bf2.bouw.tno.nl (Laurens Zonneveldt) Subject: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:13:33 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 252 Status: R Please subscribe me to the discussion list. Laurens Zonneveldt TNO-TUE Centre for Building Research University of Technology P.O. Box 513 5600 MB Eindhoven The Netherlands Phone : +31 40 47 28 14 | Fax : +31 40 43 85 95 Email : lazo@bouw.tno.nl From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Wed Sep 21 03:56:37 1994 Return-Path: From: Erwin Zierler Subject: Subscription To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:58:20 +0200 (METDST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 322 Status: R I want to subscribe to the unmoderated Radiance discussion list. (since there seems to be no special syntax reqired I formulated a sentence :-) Thank you! Erwin -- >>> Erwin Zierler erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at University of Innsbruck <<< >>> WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ Austria <<< From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Wed Sep 21 08:37:18 1994 Return-Path: Date: 20 Sep 1994 11:58:31 -0800 From: "Martin Moeck" Subject: 1. Linux 2.roughness To: "r r" Status: RO 1. Linux 2.roughness Has anyone of you experience in running Radiance under Linux on PC's? If so, does it run smoothly? Here is a question for Greg: Is roughness something like a micro-perturbation of the surface normal, where the spacing (frequency) of the indentations is pretty much fixed, but the degree of roughness is determined by the depth of the indentations? if that should be the case, I am wondering about he following renedring peculiarity in rview: I have a glossy sphere with 0 roughness, and a cylindrical lightsource with say 1 meter length gives a clear long highlight on the sphere. If I add the slightest amount of roughness to the surface, the highlight form changes from cylindrical to a small point source. Any recommendations how this can be fixed? Martin Moeck Lawrence Berkeley Lab. Building Technologies Program Windows and Daylighting Group Berkeley, CA email: mmoeck@lbl.gov From cloister@u.washington.edu Wed Sep 21 18:31:11 1994 Return-Path: X-Sender: cloister@mead1.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 18:23:03 -0700 (PDT) From: cloister bell Subject: Re: 1. Linux 2.roughness To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > Has anyone of you experience in running Radiance under Linux on PC's? If so, > does it run smoothly? yes, it does. the install script handled everything just fine, there were no compilation problems, and performance (on a 100mhz 486dx4, 16mb ram) has been comparable (if a little slower than) performance on a DEC 5000/240. From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Wed Sep 21 19:28:31 1994 Return-Path: From: "David A. Vohwinkel" Subject: 3DS to rad converter? To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 22:19:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 351 Status: RO Hi, Does anyone know of a 3DS to radiance converter? Or of a way to do it? Thanks -Dave- -- David A Vohwinkel Unix Consulting ^ ^ vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu & Operations 0 0 @ The State University of New York at Buffalo --------------oOO-(_)-OOo---------------------------------------------------- \-/ From chas@innernet.com Wed Sep 21 23:16:02 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 22:10:41 PDT From: Charles Ehrlich Subject: Linux To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov X-Mailer: LeeMail 2.0.4 Status: RO Martin, I have a 486/66 PC with 20 MB RAM and Linux v .91x. Radiance installed without a single hitch. My only complaint is that my mouse in X Windows sometimes acts like its on drugs and slides all the way to the edge of the screen even though I haven't moved it. Rpict runs about 30% faster than my Sun Sparc IPX (with 48 MB RAM). But pfilt runs about 50% slower! I talked to Greg about this and he seems to think that Linux might not have some of its file IO optimized very well. I think this just shows the weakness of the Intel chip in floating point math. I plan to get a Pentium 90 for my next machine. -Chas +-------------------------------+------------------------+ | Charles Ehrlich | Radiance Consulting | | Space & Light | Lighting Analysis | | radiance@innernet.com | Daylighting Design | | 842 Folsom St. #197, SF, CA | Energy Efficiency | | 415 905-4438 24hr messages | Archt'l 3D Modeling | +-------------------------------+------------------------+ From jst_ibp@mars.IPA.FhG.de Thu Sep 22 00:48:34 1994 Return-Path: Sender: jst_ibp@mars.IPA.FhG.de Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:47:25 EDT From: jst_ibp@mars Reply-To: JST@IBP.FhG.de To: %mx%"radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov"@mars Subject: Subscription for RADIANCE discussion list Status: RO Hi Greg, of course I want to sign up for the RADIANCE discussion list! So I kindly ask you to put me on this list. All the best, - Juergen ********************************************** Juergen Stoffel Fraunhofer Institute of Building Physics Division of Heat Technology Nobelstrasse 12 70569 Stuttgart Tel +49 711 970 3327 Fax +49 711 970 3399 e-mail: jst@ibp.fhg.de ********************************************** From dkatplzx@ibmmail.IBMMAIL.COM Thu Sep 22 01:53:11 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 04:52:54 EDT From: dkatplzx@ibmmail.COM To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Status: RO Please sign me up for the discussion list. My address is dkatplzx@ibmmail.com and my name is Hans Kilian Thanks in advance. From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Thu Sep 22 07:04:57 1994 Return-Path: From: "David A. Vohwinkel" Subject: 3dStudio, BRL-CAD to Radiance converters To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 702 Status: RO I'm sorry if I was unlcear in my last message. I am looking for a AutoDesk's 3dStudio to Radiance converter. Or maybe a round-about way of doing such a conversion. On a side note ... Has anyone used BRL-CAD from the US-Government? How is it, and can it be converted to Radiance? I really like Radiance but I find it really hard to make scenes for. Are there any good books or papers describing the language? Thanks for any info -dave- -- David A Vohwinkel Unix Consulting ^ ^ vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu & Operations 0 0 @ The State University of New York at Buffalo --------------oOO-(_)-OOo---------------------------------------------------- \-/ From meyer@arch.ethz.ch Thu Sep 22 09:18:49 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 18:17:42 +0200 From: Vital Meyer To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO requesting subscription thanks vital From bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk Fri Sep 23 03:08:04 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 11:06:02 GMT From: Philip William Griffiths To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance discussion list Cc: bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk Status: RO Greg, Yes, I'd be interested in being on the Radiance discussion list. Concerning importing buildings into Radiance. I see that there is a arch2rad command to convert Architrion text files to Radiance descriptions Are there future plans to produce an Autocad dxf > Radiances convertor? Philip Griffiths From stuart@archsun.arch.gatech.edu Fri Sep 23 08:29:36 1994 Return-Path: From: Stuart Lewis Subject: Re: 3DS To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 11:21:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 659 Status: RO > Does anyone know of a 3DS to radiance converter? Or of a way to > do it? > I haven't personally done this conversion, as I have little use for 3DS in my work. I _do_ know that you can export 3DS entities in .DXF format. >From there you could use the DXFTORAD (sp?) conversion utility. If you're using ACAD, I have been very pleased with the Autocad to Radiance autolisp script developed by the folks at the ETH. It's called TORAD, and is in the usual place for these things at hobbes.lbl.gov. Hope this helps, Stuart Lewis Georgia Institute of Technology -- "No mas! No mas!" -Roberto Duran [?] stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu 404 894 3821 From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Wed Sep 21 08:37:18 1994 Return-Path: Date: 20 Sep 1994 11:58:31 -0800 From: "Martin Moeck" Subject: 1. Linux 2.roughness To: "r r" Status: RO 1. Linux 2.roughness Has anyone of you experience in running Radiance under Linux on PC's? If so, does it run smoothly? Here is a question for Greg: Is roughness something like a micro-perturbation of the surface normal, where the spacing (frequency) of the indentations is pretty much fixed, but the degree of roughness is determined by the depth of the indentations? if that should be the case, I am wondering about he following renedring peculiarity in rview: I have a glossy sphere with 0 roughness, and a cylindrical lightsource with say 1 meter length gives a clear long highlight on the sphere. If I add the slightest amount of roughness to the surface, the highlight form changes from cylindrical to a small point source. Any recommendations how this can be fixed? Martin Moeck Lawrence Berkeley Lab. Building Technologies Program Windows and Daylighting Group Berkeley, CA email: mmoeck@lbl.gov From pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU Fri Sep 23 12:05:00 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 13:04:29 -0600 To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) From: pburns@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (Pat Burns) Subject: Re: subscribe Status: R At 1:10 PM 9/16/94 -0700, Gregory J. Ward wrote: >You're now on the unmoderated discussion group. >-Greg Thanks, Greg. Regards, Pat **************************************************************** Pat Burns Director of Westnet & Department of Mechanical Engineering 303/491-7260 303/491-6120 303/491-1958 (FAX) 303/491-1055 (FAX) Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 pburns@westnet.net **************************************************************** From matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU Fri Sep 23 12:15:01 1994 Return-Path: From: matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 15:09:09 -0500 (EDT) Cc: matgso@ironduke.CS.Gsu.EDU () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 93 Status: R Please subscribe me to the Radiance discussion list. Scott Owen matgso@ironduke.cs.gsu.edu From mmanoles@srv_gc.univ-lr.fr Sat Sep 24 03:09:36 1994 Return-Path: From: Mircea_Manolescu Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 12:11:49 +0200 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: discussion group Status: RO Congratulations, it is a great idea ! Please put MIRCEA (mmanoles@srv_gc.univ-lr.fr) on the unmoderated discussion list. Thanks, Mircea. From jz@corbu.cnrs-mrs.fr Mon Sep 26 11:44:41 1994 Return-Path: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:41:45 +0000 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: jz@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr (zoller Jacques) Status: R subscribe Jacques Zoller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jacques Zoller| gamsau - Ecole d'architecture de Marseille Luminy 184 av de luminy - 13288 MARSEILLE cedex 9 email : jz@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr tel : 91 82 71 64 (secreteriat : 71 70) fax 91 82 71 71 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de Tue Sep 27 04:19:47 1994 Return-Path: X400-Received: by mta osi-west.es.net in /PRMD=ESnet/ADMD= /C=US/; Relayed; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:19:18 +0000 X400-Received: by /PRMD=dfnrelay/ADMD=d400/C=de/; Relayed; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:20:46 +0000 X400-Received: by /PRMD=tu-harburg/ADMD=d400/C=DE/; Relayed; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:19:05 +0000 X400-Received: by /PRMD=tu-harburg/ADMD=d400-gw/C=de/; Relayed; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:01:30 +0000 X400-Received: by /PRMD=tu-harburg/ADMD=d400-gw/C=de/; Relayed; Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:18:48 +0000 X400-Received: by /PRMD=tu-harburg/ADMD=d400/C=de/; Relayed; Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:18:48 +0000 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:18:48 +0000 X400-Originator: Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de X400-Recipients: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=tu-harburg/ADMD=d400-gw/C=de/;<9409271118.AA07150@MinasTirith.] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: Subscribe From: " (Thomas Hiller hs20 3448)" To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 386 Status: R Hello Greg, please subscribe me to both mailing lists. hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de Thanks, Thomas Dr. Thomas Hiller email: hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de TU Hamburg-Harburg Zentrallabor Informations- und Kommunikationstechnik Harburger Schloss-Str. 20 Tel.: +49-40-7718-3448 D - 21071 Hamburg Fax : +49-40-7718-2579 From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Tue Sep 27 10:47:02 1994 From: Erwin Zierler Return-Path: Subject: Archives To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 17:36:35 +0200 (METDST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 762 Status: R Hi all! This is my first post to this group and I'm pretty curious how many people are already subscribed :-) Now to my concern: I have gathered some textures over the last years and wondered if anyone else might have done the same. In my opinion it could save us some effort (like browsing huge picture archives) if we started sharing these textures. I would also be willing to set up an ftp (gopher/www) site to store useful data and make them accessible for all Radiance users. I could also imagine to share geometry objects. Well, that's it for now. Curious to hear your opinion! Regards Erwin -- >>> Erwin Zierler erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at University of Innsbruck <<< >>> WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ Austria <<< From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRAY01@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL Tue Sep 27 22:59:11 1994 Return-Path: <@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:ARRAY01@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 07:45:43 IST From: Abraham Yezioro Subject: Re: Radiance textures To: "Gregory J. Ward" X-Acknowledge-To: Status: R Hi, Erwin (and all)! In your distributed mail you "complain" about possible useless effort trying to define textures that maybe someone else already has. I'm agree with you, and hope that the idea will succeed. As for my own, i have just a few months using Radiance, so i basically use some defined textures and stuff related. But ..., you also asked: >> I could also imagine to share geometry objects. At this respect I've already uploaded some modeling functions, and they are located in Greg's node (in pub/generators i guess). One of the functions is for generating different kinds of membranes, another one is for generating wedge primitives, and the last one is for generating any kind of square based pyramids (genshell, genwedge and genpyr). The last two are really new and not full proved, so I'm interested in getting some feedback about them in order to fix, add or anything else to them (this is a request to all the interested). Again, hope your idea will succeed. Regards, Abraham array01@technion.technion.ac.il From vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Oct 4 09:30:47 1994 Return-Path: From: "David A. Vohwinkel" Subject: New XFree86-3.1 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 479 Status: R Hi, The new XFree-3.1 has support to display 15/16 bit color for my graphics card. I was wondering if Radiance will take advantage of that fact? If not is there anything that I can do so that it will? Thanks -Dave- -- David A Vohwinkel Unix Consulting ^ ^ vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu & Operations 0 0 @ The State University of New York at Buffalo --------------oOO-(_)-OOo---------------------------------------------------- \-/ From greg Tue Oct 4 10:09:54 1994 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:01:26 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, vohwi-d@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: Re: New XFree86-3.1 Status: R Hi Dave, I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic for the discussion group, plus I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. When you mention 15/16 bit color, do you mean with or without a color table? As you may know, X11 offers many, many (too many) different display "visuals," which determine how colors are handled. Rview and ximage do their best to accommodate these different visuals, but there are limits and most of my effort has been spent on supporting the most common types. These visual types are generally one of: 24-bit truecolor, 8-bit pseudocolor (color table lookup), 8-bit greyscale, and 1-bit monochrome. Rview supports all but 1-bit monochrome, and ximage supports all of these types. If your 15/16-bit color is pseudocolor (i.e. uses a color table), then both rview and ximage will use only 256 entries and it will look just like 8-bit pseudocolor. Even if the 15/16-bit color is truecolor (or directcolor), rview and ximage will prefer to use an 8-bit psuedocolor type if it's still available. (I learned this by checking the code -- I've never tried it.) I hope this answers your question. I doubted anyone else could help, which is why I responded. The only other person who's hacked on the X11 code to my knowledge is Philip Thompson of MIT. Anything to add, Philip? -Greg From chas Wed Oct 5 14:19:20 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 14:08:44 PDT From: chas (Charles Ehrlich) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Color Graphics Cards and Radiance Status: R David, I'm wondering if you might have confused the data path size to the graphics card (ie 16 bit ISA card has a 16 bit data path?) from the number of bits per pixel which your card supports. The number of bits per pixel usually has more to do with the amount of available video RAM installed on the card than anything else. Since Rview and Ximage do not support 16 bits per pixel (32K colors) you might try adding more VRAM to your graphics card to bring it up to 24 bits per pixel or 16 Million colors. This should not cost more than $100.00 US. Having the 16 bits does give you the ability to have more than one pseudo-color, 8 bit (256 color) image on the screen at the same time without Radiance (or X11 or the OS) having to fight over color tables. This is my big complaint about my SparcStation IPX. Really great and fast 8 bit color (CG3). The only 24 bit color card I can find costs $2000+ dollars and takes up both S-Bus slots! -Chas From artlite@iaccess.za Mon Oct 10 12:53:54 1994 Return-Path: To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: artlite@iaccess.za (Gavin Donaldson-Selby) Subject: Problem with RAYPATH Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 19:46:18 -0500 Lines: 32 Status: R Greetings If anyone who has installed Radiance on a Linux machine can explain to me why ximage (for example) can not find specified files, I would be grateful. I have installed the binaries to /usr/local/bin, and the library files to /usr/local/lib/ray. My .login contains setenv RAYPATH .:${HOME}/ray/lib:/usr/local/lib/ray. On " env " I get RAYPATH=.:/home/gavin/ray/lib:/usr/local/lib/ray The same library files may be found in both above dierctories. ximage will display the files only if the above diectories are current. Thanks in advance Gavin. GH Donaldson-Selby Department of Drama and Theatre Craft Fax. SA 27 31 223405 Technikon Natal Ph. SA 27 31 225 2194 Durban 4001 Republic of South Africa. From greg Mon Oct 10 12:59:57 1994 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 12:59:20 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: artlite@iaccess.za Subject: Re: Problem with RAYPATH Status: R Hi Gavin, I hope you don't expect ximage to find picture files to display from the given library locations. The RAYPATH variable is not even used by ximage as far as I know. It's only used by other programs to find .cal and .pic files for patterns and textures, etc. Ximage displays only files for which you give the explicit path. -Greg From artlite@iaccess.za Mon Oct 10 16:21:37 1994 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 01:05:07 +0000 From: Artlite - Gavin Donaldson-Selby Subject: Re: Problem with RAYPATH To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Greetings (again) Please ignore previous message. The mistake was mine (sheepish look), my thanks to Greg. Regards Gavin. From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Tue Oct 11 08:55:01 1994 Return-Path: Date: 10 Oct 1994 15:21:09 -0800 From: "Martin Moeck" Subject: Radiance presentations To: "rad jk" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0 Status: R Hello all, can you explain how you make 1. slides 2. videos 3. color printouts from your Radiance pictures? What medium do you prefer for presentations? Any recommendations / hints for the necessary hardware? Also: Any recommendations to produce scanned images for use in the Radiance colorpict type? Thanks in advance Martin Moeck Building Technologies Program Lawrence Berkeley Lab. email: mmoeck@lbl.gov From bill@probe1.prbj.ulst.ac.uk Wed Oct 12 01:29:01 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:18:48 GMT From: Philip William Griffiths To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: slides and colour printouts Status: R Martin I use the ra_pict and ra_tiff commands in radiance to produce Mac PICT and TIFF files. I then transfer them by disk from my Sun to the Mac where I use Canvas to produce colour prints and slides. Philip Griffiths centre for Performance Research on the Built Environment University of Ulster email: p.griffiths@ulst.ac.uk From shankerj@Imageman.COM Thu Oct 13 17:00:45 1994 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:00:51 -0500 Channel-Security: UNSECURE Channel-Exposure: EXTERNAL Crypt-Code: PLAINTEXT Errors-To: postmaster@Imageman.COM Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:59:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Shanker Janakiraman Subject: Subscription to unmoderated group To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R include me shankerj@imageman.com From katti@pcuf.fi Sat Oct 15 11:35:36 1994 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:35:58 +0200 From: katti@pcuf.fi (Harri Ronkko) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Status: R request mailinglist. E-mail Address : katti@pcuf.fi From @grenfell.demon.co.uk:dataplan@dplan4 Tue Oct 18 17:07:30 1994 Return-Path: <@grenfell.demon.co.uk:dataplan@dplan4> From: Data Plan IT Ltd Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 16:30:24 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: GJWard@lbl.gov Subject: Inventor to Radiance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO My Company is involved in modelling and visualising kitchens and other domestic interiors using our own software based on the SGI Inventor toolkit. I've recently been looking at the Radiance rendering package as a means of producing a more faithful rendering of our scenes and am very impressed by what I've seen to date. Are you aware of any work that has been done in converting SGI Inventor models directly into the Radiance format? It would seem that the two were made for each other. Regards Des Grenfell PS would you be kind enough to CC to Desmond@grenfell.demon.co.uk as I'm not sure if I've got my email address sorted out yet. From greg Wed Oct 19 09:36:04 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 09:34:53 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: Desmond@grenfell.demon.co.uk, dataplan@dplan4.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Inventor to Radiance Status: R Hi Des, I, too, am interested in a converter from Inventor to Radiance. Unfortunately, SGI does not provide any decent documentation of this format, expecting you will use their class library, something I do not wish to do because I want the translator to work on all machines without royalties. If you have a good handle on the ASCII Inventor file format, perhaps you could write a translator yourself? Radiance input, at least, is very easy to interpret and express in Inventor format. I don't know about the other way, though. It seems that parsing the Inventor file format requires a fair degree of sophistication, and we may be stuck with the Inventor toolkit to go from Inventor to Radiance. I'm going to copy your e-mail to the Radiance discussion group along with this response, in hopes that some users out there have already tackled this problem. The chief incompatibilities between Inventor and Radiance are the parametric shapes Radiance doesn't support directly (you should use gensurf to make them) and the physical reflection models that Inventor doesn't support at all (which will have to be approximated). -Greg From stavridi@fys.ruu.nl Thu Oct 20 01:54:10 1994 Return-Path: From: "M. Stavridi" Subject: RADIANCE To: GJWard@lbl.gov Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:54:15 +0100 (GMT+0100) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 84 Status: R I would like to be on the discussion list as well. Thank you for your help Marigo From greg Thu Oct 20 12:27:35 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 12:19:42 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: matthews@aaa.uoregon.edu, radiance-discuss Subject: Re: FW: A question about Inventor Cc: greg Status: R Anyone know what Richard is talking about? Please discuss this on the discussion group (use Reply rather than reply on most mailers) so that we can come to some conclusions as a collective. -Greg ------------------ >From matthews@aaa.uoregon.edu Thu Oct 20 11:49:42 1994 Return-Path: Date: 20 Oct 1994 11:47:18 -0800 From: "Matthews, Kevin" Subject: FW: A question about Inventor To: "Ward, Gregory J." Status: R Greg, I've got a grad. student here who's been working with Inventor. He hasn't gotten into Radiance yet (he will!) so I don't think he can really add much, but his thoughts are following. By the way, I'll be showing some Radiance images at the ACADIA conference in St. Louis this weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if others are too. I'm still excited about MacRadiance--I've just been swamped by tankerfuls of dumb stuff and haven't been able quite focus on it. I really want to get it going and will be in touch. --KMM _______________________________________________________________________________ From: Coutts, Richard on Wed, Oct 19, 1994 11:03 PM Subject: RE: A question about Inventor To: Matthews, Kevin Though my experience with the file formats is somewhat limited, it did look fairly straight forward - the ASCII format is basically pseudo C++ code for generating the scene graph. The documentation is especially limited in this area, but there are library functions for generating code for an existing scene graph, so if you wanted to decipher the file format for a specific technique it would be a matter of coding it up in C++ and then making a function call to generate the corresponding file. Unless I'm missing something here, the deciphering should be straight forward from there. Sorry I've never dealt with Radiance files. From ruben@visgraf.impa.br Thu Oct 27 09:52:38 1994 Return-Path: From: ruben@visgraf.impa.br (Ruben Zonenschein) Subject: sign up To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 14:11:38 -0200 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 130 Status: RO I would like to sign up for the unmoderated Radiance discussion list. Thanks, Ruben Zonenschein e-mail : ruben@visgraf.impa.br From greg Fri Oct 28 09:22:22 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:13:22 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: mail from Hiller Status: R The following message is being forwarded by request... >From Hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de Fri Oct 28 01:40:10 1994 From: " (Thomas Hiller hs20 3448)" To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: parallel version of radiance ? Hello Greg, I tried two times to send the following message to radiance-discuss, but I always get a "message delayed" and "message could not delivered" in return. Can you please forward it to the discuss group? Thanks in advance Thomas ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From hiller Thu Oct 20 08:57 MET 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:57:53 --100 From: hiller@MinasTirith.cip2b.tu-harburg.de (Thomas Hiller hs20 3448) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: parallel version of radiance ? Hello, I'm interested in a parallel version of radiance (preferable based on pvm or mpi). Does anyone know of such a version ? My target architecture is not a workstation cluster but a parallel computer, which offers a pvm interface. I already read the article from greg about rpiece, but this doesn't work in my environment. Another article I found was written by someone from SUN (I don't remember his name). He ported rview to SUN threads. Is this software public available ? It could be a good starting point. Thanks in advance, Thomas Dr. Thomas Hiller email: hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de TU Hamburg-Harburg Zentrallabor Informations- und Kommunikationstechnik Harburger Schloss-Str. 20 Tel.: +49-40-7718-3448 D - 21071 Hamburg Fax : +49-40-7718-2579 ----- End Included Message ----- ########################################################################### I'm curious why rpiece doesn't work, actually. Is there no lock manager, or is it an NFS problem? Rpiece does work on multiprocessors as well as networked machines -- at least that was the idea. Did you try defining NFS=0 or otherwise customizing rpiece already? -Greg From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Fri Oct 28 09:39:28 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 11:38:24 -0500 From: "Eric Ost" To: hiller@tu-harburg.d400.de, greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: parallel version of radiance ? Status: R Thomas, Which parallel system are you using? Is it an Intel Paragon? Are you using Intel's pvm environment? rpiece does not work on the Intel Paragon unless you alter the I/O mode such that all writes into the shared image output file are synchronized. W/o using I/O sync mode, you will end up with only one segment of the image present in the file -- all the others go into the bit bucket. This synchronization problem probably also exists on other flavors of multiprocessing systems. Have you run rpiece on more than one variety of multiprocessing system? I'd be happy to share the info I have discovered regarding how to rememdy the file I/O problem. Of course, this may not be the problem you are encountering... I'd be happy to help in any case... eric From harald.backert@rrzc1.rz.uni-regensburg.de Tue Nov 1 10:33:18 1994 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 1 Nov 94 19:32:48 +0100 From: Harald Backert To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: add Status: R Please add me to the unmoderated Radiance discussion list. Thank you. Harald From hedley@compsci.bristol.ac.uk Wed Nov 2 08:56:32 1994 Return-Path: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe.... Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 16:55:05 +0000 From: David Hedley Status: RO Please can you subscribe me to the Radiance mailing list thanks David +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | David Hedley (David.Hedley@bris.ac.uk) | All programmers are playwrights | | Computer Graphics Group | and all computers are lousy | | University of Bristol | actors | | England | - Anon | | *** All opinions expressed are mine and mine alone *** | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From phils@MIT.EDU Fri Nov 4 13:23:32 1994 Return-Path: To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Beta testers for autocad "radout" wanted. Cc: phils@MIT.EDU Reply-To: phils@MIT.EDU (Philip R. Thompson) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 15:54:42 EST From: "Philip R. Thompson" Status: R Dear Radiance / Autocad Users, I have written an Autocad to Radiance converter in ADS/C called "radout". It runs much like "torad" and "dxfout". That is, from within autocad only. I am looking for some beta testers out there who know how to compile unix C code and modify makefiles to suit their sites and are willing to let me know of any problems. We have been using radout for about 6 months now without any major problems. Those interested can hpefully test it on difficult models and reports any unix incompatibilities before I make it generally available via ftp. Radout is largely based on Georg Mischler's "torad" lisp program - which provided the inspiration and the understanding of autocad's workings. Methodically, it is almost identical - with sorted lists of objects and their hierarchy lists. No need to explode models, etc. However, there are changes: o it being compiled C, executes 2-4 time faster. o it produes simple rif files for immediate input to rad. o it has some fixed transformation stuff. o it has different arc/bulge approximations (a la Graphics Gems). o it has other minor algorithmic differences. It is still under part-time development - with the next feature being smoothing (now that is is supported better in radiance). Send me mail if you're interested and I will mail it to you. Philip Thompson phils@mit.edu From francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Wed Nov 9 09:10:21 1994 Return-Path: From: francois lauzon Subject: Re: subscribe To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) (Gregory J. Ward) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 12:01:18 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R please subscribe me to the unmoderated group. Thank you! From ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Nov 10 11:17:30 1994 Return-Path: To: GJWard@lbl.gov (Greg Ward) Subject: Radiance Discussion List From: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil ( Jerry Ballard ) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 13:06:31 -0600 Sender: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Status: R Hi Greg. Sorry to bother you, but I haven't received any mail from the new radiance discussion list. Am I on the list? or perhaps there hasn't been any discussion yet. Thanks, Jerry Ballard +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ | US Army Engineer WES | | | Environmental Lab | FAX: (601) 634-3726 | | ATTN: Jerry Ballard (WESEN-C) | Voice: (601) 634-2946 | | 3909 Halls Ferry Rd. | e-mail: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil | | Vicksburg, MS 39180 | | +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Wed Nov 9 11:09:08 1994 Return-Path: From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: subscribe Georg Mischler To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 20:07:56 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 58 Status: RO subscribe Georg Mischler u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de From photoclb@rorqual.cc.metu.edu.tr Tue Nov 15 08:52:09 1994 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 18:49:42 +0300 (MEST) From: nergis dincer photoclb To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R subscribe radiance-user Photo Club in METU From jromera@dolmen.tid.es Wed Nov 16 06:53:24 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 15:53:37 --100 From: jromera@dolmen.tid.es (Juan Romera Arroyo) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Discussion Group Cc: Status: R Please, subscribe me. Juan Romera Arroyo jromera@dolmen.tid.es Best Regards From karner@fcggsg30.tu-graz.ac.at Wed Nov 16 10:02:14 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 18:58:29 +0100 (MET) From: Konrad Karner Subject: Subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hi Greg, please subscribe me to the unmoderated discussion group. Thank you! Konrad Karner karner@icg.tu-graz.ac.at From greg Thu Nov 17 13:26:18 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 13:16:21 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: forwarded mail Status: R >From francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Thu Nov 17 11:12:27 1994 Return-Path: From: francois lauzon Subject: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov does not work ??? To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 13:17:22 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R I Greg, I've been trying twice to send a message, and there is a problem but I don't know which one, so here I send you the message I get back: --------- START ------------- radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov... Unexpected close while awaiting SMTP reply from hobbes.lbl.gov radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov... Deferred ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by dbm8.dbmreflex.qc.ca (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA00841; Mon, 14 Nov 1994 11:22:44 -0500 From: francois lauzon Return-Path: Subject: Radiance to Intensity ??? To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 11:22:43 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Hi Greg, hi people, I work for a company called DBM Reflex. We're doing rear car lenses, and we plan to use Radiance to predict the intensity produce by the car lense. First, we want to make a small prototype and compare the intensity mesured with Radiance (if we can find a way to convert) with those calculated on a real car lense. The visuals pictures we've got are very interesting, and we really think that Radiance will work for us. I have a parabolic reflector with a bulb in the focal point. Using rtrace I can get the radiance value in a specific direction. What I would like to do, is to convert the radiance value to an intensity value (in candelas). Is there any way to convert easily a RGB radiance value to an intensity value. I'd appreciate any information anyone can give me. Thanks, Francois Lauzon, francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca --------- END ------------- You can see that there is a 'deferred' problem. Can you put the message to the radiance-discuss, and tell me what I did wrong. Thank you! Frank. >From greg Thu Nov 17 11:21:50 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 11:21:30 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Subject: Re: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov does not work ??? Status: R Hi Francois, ' I don't know why your mail isn't getting through, but perhaps it's just as well. I hate to inform you of this, but Radiance is not really a good solution to your problem. The software is designed to follow light backwards, and what you really need is a forward Monte Carlo ray tracer. I hope to work on such a thing myself, but I have no guess yet as to when I might finish. In the meantime, there are commercial products available for this task from Lighting Technologies in Boulder, Colorado (call 303-449-5791 and ask about FiELD), and Lighting Sciences in Scottsdale, Arizona (call 602-991-9252 and ask about Raymaster), and Breault Research Organization in Tucson Arizona (call 1-800-882-5085 and ask about ASAP). I will post your question if you really want me to, but the answer may be found in the back issues of the Radiance Digest, I believe. It depends what you mean by "intensity." (You must tell me what units you want.) -Greg >From francois@dbmreflex.qc.ca Thu Nov 17 13:06:33 1994 Return-Path: From: francois lauzon Subject: Candelas unit To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) (Gregory J. Ward) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 15:57:08 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: R Hi Greg, Thank you for the answer! I've looked in the Radiance Digest before I wrote this last mail, and I didn't find anything about that. We want to find the intensity in candelas unit in different direction and I have a parabolic reflector with a bulb in the focal point. We we're thinking about sending a lot of ray with rtrace. The rays would be generate from a plane in space, in front of the reflector. Using the formula "Intensity = Luminace * Area * cos (teta)", we could find all the dI (intensity) for each plane element and find the final Intensity along a direction by adding all those dI. Then we have the intensity for a direction. So I was thinking that there may be an easier way to do this. Thank, Frank. P.S. Can you post my last question please. ---------------------------------------------------- Just a final note, the following formula converts from radiance units (watts/steradian/meter^2) into luminance (lumens/steradian/meter^2) using RGB values out of Radiance: 179 * (.265*R + .670*G + .065*B) I still stand by my previous assertion that Radiance is not well-suited to this type of reflector simulation, but perhaps there are those of you who have feelings or experience to the contrary. -Greg From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Fri Nov 18 08:48:32 1994 Return-Path: Date: 17 Nov 1994 15:39:17 -0800 From: "Martin Moeck" Subject: Reflector computations To: "r a" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0 Status: RO Hello Francois, you should not use Radiance to simulate complex luminaires. In case you want to do it for simple light sources: 1. set up points of measurement around the luminaire. Make shure that their distance to the luminaire is at least 5 times the maximum dimension of the light source, if you want to have a file that is somewhat independent of application distance. 2. Determine the coordinates of the center of the light source and the direction vectors from the points of measurement to the light source center. 3. make a file "samples.inp" that looks like the following: x_coordinate_of_point_of_measurement y_coordinate_of_point_of_measurement z_coordinate_of_point_of_measurement x_direction_vector y_direction_vector z_direction_vector ... (for all the points of interest) 4. run the following: rtrace -ovl -I ...accurate parameters... scene.oct < samples.inp > irradiance out This will give you irradiance values and the distance D of each point of measurement to the center of the luminaire. To get intensity in candela, do the following: Illuminance = 54*Red+106*Green+20*Blue Intensity = Illuminance/ (D * D) This procedure works only for luminaires in black spaces. If you wanted to get intensities from the luminaire positioned in a reflective space, you would have to produce false-color pictures from the points of measurement with the viewing direction of the direction vectors as mentioned above. You will run into a problem, however. The luminance of the luminaire may vary from 0 to 20000 cd/m2 or more. To get an average value out of this requires weighting each pixel's luminance by its area. Once you get that value, you have to multiply it by the steradian as defined by the viewpoint and the projected area of the luminaire. Hope this helps - Greg, correct me if I'm wrong with the conversion of irradiance to illuninance. Martin Moeck Lawrence Berkeley Lab Building Technologies MS 90-3111 Berkeley, CA 94720 e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Tue Nov 22 01:06:50 1994 Return-Path: From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: Job wanted To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 21:15:11 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1645 Status: RO Hi all, I am known to the Radiance user community as the author of the "torad" Autocad to RADIANCE translator. I have finished my architectural studies two years ago and since then worked in a lighting design studio as a CAD expert, application developer, network manager and assistant designer. In my studies and in my work, I have relied heavily on CAD and many different visualisation software packages for animation, visualisation and lighting simulation. Autocad and RADIANCE have been the most important tools for my work up to now, running on several unix platforms and the Macintosh. Now, as my present task approaches completion, I am looking for a new challenge, possibly not too far away from the field of architecture and lighting, where I could apply my expertise on the above mentioned fields for the next few years. The more new things I can learn at the same time, the happier I will be. I'd appreciate any information on possible positions, be it in application or in research. Location doesn't really matter, as long as I can get a working permission and people there at least understand german or english (or maybe french). forwarding myself to the future Georg Mischler u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de ------------------------------------------------- Please send your info to one of the adresses below: Georg Mischler Andreestrasse 9 80364 Muenchen Germany E-Mail: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Private: ++49/89/167 53 60 Office: ++49/89/724 06 315 Possible Contact: G. Mischler Seltisbergerstrasse. 20 4059 Basel Switzerland E-Mail: mischler@arch.ethz.ch From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Tue Nov 22 10:01:41 1994 Return-Path: Date: 21 Nov 1994 08:58:58 -0800 From: "Martin Moeck" Subject: correction luminaire simula To: "radiance discuss" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0 Status: R Hello , sorry - I found a mistake: Intensity = Illuminance* (D * D) where D is in meters and Illuminance is in lux. Cos Theta cancels out since measurements are taken in the direction to the light source. Martin Moeck Lawrence Berkeley Lab Building Technologies MS 90-3111 Berkeley, CA 94720 e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov From Alexander.Ivanov@comlab.oxford.ac.uk Mon Nov 28 08:58:38 1994 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.oxford.comlab; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:10:50 +0000 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:07:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Alexander Ivanov Subject: put me on the list please To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hi Greg! Hi Radiance Fellows! don`t you mind putting me on the Radiance mailing list? Please do it... Regards, Alexander From greg Wed Nov 30 09:37:45 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 09:27:53 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: forwarded mail Status: R For some reason, people are having trouble posting to radiance-discuss@hobbes. I don't know what the mailer error is or how to fix it, unfortunately. Sorry about that -- it's just not my area of expertise. Anyway, you can send your mail to me if it bounces and I'll forward it to the list. --------------------------- Hi all, what I would like to know is if someone has already tried to install and run Radiance on a Silicon Graphics Power Challenge(with IRIX 6.0). I got an account last week (for testing) and now I wonder if it's much of a problem to compile it on such a system. I of course want to use the compile- optimizations to make the executables as fast as possible and also take advantage of the 4 CPU's (and 1 Gigabyte RAM) of this machine. Looking through the online manuals of the Power Challenge I saw alot of possible compiler options which allow to optimize the code and generate fast executables. Unfortunatly I know much too less about C and programming in common to decide where it makes sense to apply these optimizations and where not. Some general rules for changing the Rmakefiles would be enough to get me started I guess. Another question is wether I should use the 64bit or the 32bit compile option. Alot of questions, uhg! As I understand from reading the article about 'Parallel Rendering' from Greg I can use 'rpiece' and render the images in pieces distributing them on the 4 CPU's. Well, I have to figure out how to run a certain process on a certain CPU before I play around with this I guess :).(I have done renderings with 'rpiece on our Indigo cluster (6 RS4000) already, so I know the basics). Any hints are very much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Erwin -- >>> Erwin Zierler erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at University of Innsbruck <<< >>> WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ Austria <<< ------------------------------ Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, I haven't noticed much difference in speed between 32-bit and 64-bit compiles. In fact, with IRIX 5.x at least, 64-bit seems to be slower than 32-bit under IRIX 4.x. I don't pretend to know why. Also, certain compiler optimization flags can cause code to break in undetermined ways, and they will later crash with no sign of where the error occurred. I have had this happen to me personally, and it is most frustrating trying to isolate the problem. When I find it, it's usually a very innocuous-looking bit of code that the compiler chokes on for no apparent reason, leaving me no idea how to fix it other than to change the optimization flag back to what it was. As for parallel rendering, it shouldn't be necessary to assign processes to processors. The system should load-balance processes automatically. -Greg From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Wed Nov 30 18:25:04 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 21:13:26 -0500 From: "Eric Ost" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance on SGI Power Challenge Status: R Erwin (and the Radiance list), >what I would like to know is if someone has already tried to install and run >Radiance on a Silicon Graphics Power Challenge(with IRIX 6.0). Yes, we have done this here at CICA/TCVC. The Computer Science Department permitted Rob Shakespeare and I to use their 20 CPU SGI Challenge for a period of time. Summary opinion: the 20 CPU SGI is *quite* a nice rendering "engine" and, in general, a nice shared-memory, multi-processor system. >I of course want to use the compile-optimizations to make the executables >as fast as possible and also take advantage of the 4 CPU's (and 1 Gigabyte >RAM) of this machine. I believe that the "rmake" produced by Greg's "makeall" script worked just fine on the 20 CPU Challenge. Note that "SPEED" was tweaked to account for relative clock-speed differences amongst the different types of SGIs. E.g. 150 MHz systems use "SPEED=54." If you run into any compilation problems, I would be happy to help you to find a solution. >As I understand from reading the article about 'Parallel Rendering' from Greg >I can use 'rpiece' and render the images in pieces distributing them on the 4 >CPU's. Well, I have to figure out how to run a certain process on a certain >CPU before I play around with this I guess :). My experience concurs Greg's note that said: "As for parallel rendering, it shouldn't be necessary to assign processes to processors. The system should load-balance processes automatically." The SGI should do a good job of load balancing amongst its processors, so node-locking "rpiece" on your 4 node system would probably not show much improvement in overall run-time. For the 20 (R4400) CPU/2 GB RAM SGI system at the IU Computer Science Dept. we found it to be an advantage to node-lock "rpiece" on a particular CPU. This way we could ensure to only use 16 of the CPUs, leaving the other 4 for the "interactive" users of the machine. We used the SGI utility "runon" inside of a script that initiated a rendering task on 16 different processors. The script built the configuration file(s) for the particular image being rendered and then specified that a single instance of "rpiece" was to be run on each CPU. When competing for cycles with folks who are doing edit/compile/run types of things, a big (giga-pixel) rendering will sometimes finish faster when using less than the total number of processors. This is because the overall run-time depends on how fast all of the "rpiece" tasks are able to render all of the image-plane segments. The slowest "rpiece" task(s) will inevitably be the one(s) running on the shared CPU(s). Thus, you may find that running on 3 CPUs is faster than running on all 4 CPUs. Your mileage may vary. Are there other folks who have run, or are running, Radiance on multi-CPU systems? How about folks running Radiance on multi-host clusters of systems? eric From crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au Thu Dec 1 20:42:11 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 12:16:47 WST From: crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au (Simon "fish" Crone) Subject: Re: Radiance farming. To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: R |> Are there other folks who have run, or are running, Radiance on multi-CPU |> systems? How about folks running Radiance on multi-host clusters of systems? Here at Curtin Uni, we are using 17 Sun Sparcstaions (IPCs) to render single images with great results. The way that the farming script gets set up, however, is a bit cumbersome. I currently have to run "rad -n model.rif" to get all of the rpict parameters and then do a cut and paste into the farm script. The farm script just does a rsh $machine rpiece $args $etc for each of our 17 Suns. Does anyone have a nicer way of doing this? Also, it has taken around 20 hours with 17 machines to do rendering with rad settings of: Quality = High, Variablilty = Medium, Detail = High, Indirect = 0 and Ambfile set. This was of a resolution of 640 by 480. ( Note that since this wasn't done through the rad prog the rendering resolution was 640 x 480 not 1920 x 1440 ). Is that something like the times that others might be getting. How many people render using the "Quality = high" option with an ambient file? Simon. ________________________________________________________________________________ | | | | Simon Crone. - Masters Student. | He who dies with the | | | most toys - Wins! | | Email:crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au | | | http://puffin.curtin.edu.au/~crones/simon.html | ( Ancient coffee | | Mail:School of Architecture and Planning, | mug proverb .... ) | | Curtin University of Technology, | | | GPO Box U1987, Perth, Western Australia | Phone: +619 351-7310 | |___________________________________________________|__________________________| From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Thu Dec 1 21:00:30 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 00:00:07 -0500 From: "Tony Yuricich" To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re:Re:Radiance farming Status: R >Also, it has taken around 20 hours with 17 machines to do rendering with >rad settings of: Quality = High, Variablilty = Medium, Detail = High, >Indirect = 0 and Ambfile set. This was of a resolution of 640 by 480. >( Note that since this wasn't done through the rad prog the rendering >resolution was 640 x 480 not 1920 x 1440 ). >Is that something like the times that others might be getting. > >How many people render using the "Quality = high" option with an ambient >file? I am using also Variability = High setting and rad program and it is currently 54% rendered after 372 hours. Don't laugh - this is just a lowly IBM PC compatible. Tony From greg Fri Dec 2 11:11:53 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 11:01:50 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: crones@puffin.curtin.edu.au, radiance-discuss Subject: Re: Radiance farming. Status: R Hey folks, I don't know why your renderings are taking so long, but somehow I feel that I'm to blame. (Now why is that?) I've been doing a bunch of renderings myself, lately, and they do take a while but I don't think I'd ever wait 400+ hours for a single picture! The last high-quality 1000x700 (or so) picture I generated took about 10 hours on my SGI Indigo R4000, and it was a fairly complex space. Since I want to encourage people to use rad (and the new GUI trad), I feel I should give some appropriate hints on minimizing rendering time or at least understanding why a particular rendering is taking so darned long. As most of you know already, the indirect calculation in Radiance is what makes it special and also what can make it especially slow if you're not careful about how you apply it. Using rad, most of the so-called "ambient" parameters (-a*) are derived from the following variables. I have arranged their values in order of least to most costly in calculation time: QUALITY= Low Medium High INDIRECT= 0 1 2 3 ... VARIABILITY= Low Medium High DETAIL= Low Medium High In addition to the above rad variables, the PENUMBRAS variable if set to "True" will significantly slow down most renderings. The RESOLUTION setting also has some effect, though not as much as you would suppose. Also, setting the AMBFILE variable is generally a good idea, since it improves the results noticeably without increasing rendering time by much. In fact, for multiple renderings of the same scene, rad will proceed much faster with an ambient file. Now, let me explain a bit how the above variables affect calculation time. The QUALITY variable has the greatest effect on rendering time, which is why I listed it first. A low quality rendering NEVER uses the indirect calculation, regardless of the setting of the INDIRECT variable, unless overridden by the render options variable. (We'll discuss when you might want to do this a little later.) A medium quality rendering uses as many bounces as indicated by the INDIRECT setting, and a high quality rendering uses INDIRECT+1 bounces in its calculation. Even more significant is how the QUALITY variable changes all the other rendering parameters that affect accuracy. Since these changes are too numerous to list exhaustively, suffice it to say that there's a BIG difference between the times and results for different settings of the QUALITY variable. The next most important variable after INDIRECT, which controls the number of bounces in the calculation (along with the QUALITY setting as described above), is the VARIABILITY variable. This tells rad just how hard it is to compute the indirect component at any given point in the scene. If the variability is low, then we don't have to send as many samples around to figure out the indirect contribution. If VARIABILITY is set to medium, then we send about three times as many samples, and space our calculations more closely. If VARIABILITY is set to high (something I don't recommend unless you have direct sun penetrating your space), then about 1500 samples will be sent out at each calculation point, and there will be roughly 4 times as many of these points as there would be with a low setting. Therefore, all else being equal, you should expect a VARIABILITY=High calculation to take roughly 25 times as long as a VARIABILITY=Low calculation -- something to think about! Finally, the DETAIL variable has a modest effect on the calculation time, as it controls the "ambient resolution" calculation parameter, which determines the minimum spacing between indirect calculation points. A low detail sene means we can afford to limit our indirect value density to a modest level compared to a medium or high detail scene. The precise effect this will have depends on the geometry of the particular scene, but it generally doesn't have more than a 10 times effect moving from a low to a high setting. Unfortunately, the above information is not enough to predict how long a given rendering will take to complete. (The best indicator still is the time elapsed so far and how much has finished, as given by rpict's reporting facility.) However, there are some important scene-related factors that we should consider. The most important scene characteristic that affects rendering time is geometric detail. (Note that this would seem to contradict my placement of the DETAIL variable as the least important setting. While it is true that the setting of this variable has a minor effect, the ACTUAL scene detail has a rather major one. In other words, changing the DETAIL variable from "medium" to "high" might double the rendering time, but increasing the actual scene complexity will have a much greater effect.) This is because Radiance adjusts the calculation of indirect illumination to the local scene complexity, unlike most radiosity rendering algorithms. (Thus Radiance maintains accuracy with the minimum effort.) Increasing the number of do-dads and knick-knacks therefore increases the number of indirect calculation points required to maintain accuracy. A worst-case scenario for Radiance is something like a packed forest, where every pine needle is participating in the indirect calculation. In scenes of such complexity, a different approach is required, and that's when we bring in the render variable to override some of the settings determined by rad. In the worst-case of a forest given above, we would probably want to turn off the indirect value storage and interpolation altogether, and greatly reduce the number of sample rays sent out, i.e: render= -ab 1 -aa 0 -ad 10 -as 0 Here we are forcing a 1-bounce calculation (more than that would be painful), set -aa to 0 to turn off interpolation, and using just 10 samples over the hemisphere at each point. The resulting picture will be somewhat noisy, but a forest is not a visually quiet place, so chances are no one will notice. (And if a tree falls, no one will hear it.) The second, more common case encountered is one where most of the geometry is fairly plain, consisting of walls, furniture and the like, but parts of the scene are incredibly detailed, like rows and rows of books in an enormous bookcase. We want to use our indirect interpolation technique to get the smoothest possible results over most of the scene, but if we apply it also to the bookcase, our rendering will never finish. What you should do in such a case is employ the "ambient selection" options, -ae and -aE to explicitly exclude materials from the indirect calculation, or -ai and -aI to include them. (You can use only one set or the other.) Thus, you "remove" the offending objects from consideration (giving them the default -av ambient value), speeding the overall calculation. Since the objects removed have a large amount of geometric detail, the loss in illumination detail will probably go unnoticed. I use this technique all the time in my own renderings, and it is one of the chief tricks that make high-quality renderings tractable. (Ultimately, a better solution would be automatic geometric simplification, but the problems involved are nasty, nasty and nasty.) For example, let's say we had venetian blinds on the window that were slowing down our nighttime calculation. The material used for the blind slats is called "slat_mat". We would then add the following setting to our render variable: render= -ae slat_mat If there were other materials involved, we could list them in additional -ae options, or use an -aE "file" option, where the file contains a list of the appropriate materials. I hope this helps to shed some light on a very murky subject. -Greg P.S. In answer to Simon Crone's question about running rpiece more elegantly, I usually use the OPTFILE variable of rad to create a rendering options file, then apply that to rpiece, like so: % rad -n -s scene.rif OPTFILE=scene.opt % rpiece @scene.opt [other options] scene.oct & From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Fri Dec 2 15:56:55 1994 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 18:20:39 -0500 From: "Tony Yuricich" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: water waves with Radiance Status: R Does anybody have a Radiance description of the water surface with waves? I have some books and formulas on the water surface subject but I know too little to apply them with ease. Also, has anybody rendered underwater caustics with Radiance? Tony ( usr8118a@tso.uc.edu) From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Sat Dec 3 09:46:27 1994 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 11:51:05 -0500 From: "Tony Yuricich" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Water Status: R Mat, >>From there you can get to a Materials and Object Library that includes some >>water textures. Voila! Thanks. I made one quickie ocean floor, put the transparent water surface over it, some light above and, it will take some tweaking, but this is a good start. I was looking at the light refracted down to the ocean floor, hoping to see caustics but it is not going to be THAT easy :-). >>I am not sure wheteher caustics require forward ray-tracing or not. If they >>do, then it will be difficult to model them in Radiance. I am not exactly knowledgeable about these things, but our illustrious Greg seems to be using ray-pathing rather than ray-tracing and it is supposed to be able to capture the phenomena of caustics. (according to Alan Watt/Mark Watt book Advanced Animation and Rendering Techniques - ACM Press - Addison-Wesley) Thanks again, Tony (usr8118a@tso.uc.edu) From greg Sat Dec 3 10:01:45 1994 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 3 Dec 94 09:52:14 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Subject: Re: Water Status: RO Sorry to inform you, but Radiance does not do caustics from curved surfaces. That does require forward ray tracing or some other technique that we don't gots. Caustics from planar surfaces with light redirections that can be expressed as a "shear matrix" we can handle. You can even fake caustics from curved surfaces if you break them into polygons, but the results are not as nice as doing it right and they tend to be expensive since each polygon creates at least one virtual light source for each light source. -Greg From usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Sun Dec 4 08:45:44 1994 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:30:39 -0500 From: "Tony Yuricich" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Water Status: RO >> You can even fake caustics from curved surfaces if you break them >> into polygons, but the results are not as nice as doing it right At this point, after browsing through the available literature, I am wondering what does it mean 'doing it right'. Both methods that I found ( one is forward ray tracing, second is 'other technique' by Nishita/Nakamae in 94 SIGGRAPH Proceedings) break the water surface into a triangular mesh. I have not tried it yet, but from my understanding of the theory involved, there is no reason to believe that Radiance virtual light sources are more costly than forward ray tracing the 'illumination volumes'. Kajiya seems to be the only one to get caustics by solving his own equation and he is not using forward ray tracing but, according to Watts, backward ray pathing which, in Watts description, is conventional ray tracing augmented with the intelligent sampling (whatever that means). The method used in Radiance sounds similar (or rather,the terminology is confusing a lay person like me) and since Watts mention you a couple of paragraphs after describing Kajiya's technique I thought ... Anyway, using Carr's ripples and putting a diffuse light polygon right above the perturbed water surface, does produce the refractive effects on ocean floor reminiscent of the real ones, except for the missing caustics. Tony(usr8118a@tso.uc.edu) From greg Sun Dec 4 10:36:07 1994 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 4 Dec 94 10:26:48 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, usr8118a@TSO.UC.EDU Subject: Re: Water Status: R Tony Yuricich (usr8118a@tso.uc.edu) wrote: > I am wondering what does it mean 'doing it right'. I don't know what it means to "do it right." I guess that would have to involve real photons at some point... All I meant was that Radiance is not terribly efficient in its calculation, and although it includes everything in the mix, it works better in some situations that others, and caustics (specifically concentration or spreading of light by curved mirrors or lenses) is not addressed directly. I admit that I am not as well-versed on this subject as I should be, but in the future I hope to implement some degree of forward ray-tracing to better complete the things that Radiance can do. I can't make any great promises, since it is going to be a multiple-year project and I've only started to investigate the problem, but it should be an improvement. > Anyway, using Carr's ripples and putting a diffuse light polygon right > above the perturbed water surface, does produce the refractive effects on > ocean floor reminiscent of the real ones, except for the missing caustics. What you are probably seeing is the effect of tracing "shadow rays" in Radiance through a "curved" (textured in this case) surface towards a source. Just like view rays, the shadow rays are perturbed by the surface, and some of them hit the light source while others don't. Thus, you get a sort of patterned shadow. However, since the effective solid angle of the light source having passed through the water is not computed, there are still no concentrations or dispersions of light rays as would happen in real life. If you wish to model these caustics, you can treat the lights sources in the indirect calculation by using the "glow" type instead of "light" or "spotlight", but you'll have to send a LOT of sampling rays, depending on how small your sources are. -Greg From holly@cam.nist.gov Sun Dec 4 10:55:42 1994 Return-Path: From: "Holly E Rushmeier" Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:39:47 -0500 References: <199412041630.LAA10249@tso2.tso.uc.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: "Tony Yuricich" , radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: R Note: Greg's response arrived while I was typing this, but I will go ahead and send this since I have a couple of small points to add that he didn't mention Kajiya's method, and Radiance also, can capture caustics in a reasonable amount of time if you have a huge solid-angle light source (such as the sky), acting as a "glowing" source (i.e. something that you hit when you are exploring the whole hemisphere of illumination rather than a source that you aim at). For small solid-angle sources, Radiance and Kajiya style path tracing can capture caustics -- but not very efficiently, and the result can be pretty noisy (which was part of the motivation for the Sig. '94 paper "Energy Preserving Non-Linear Filters"). If you have a single small-solid-angle source (i.e. the sun) it is MUCH more efficient to trace from the light source. In a forward or "light ray" method you would mesh the ocean floor to the resolution you want to see detail. Then you would shoot light bundles from the sun and follow where (if at all) they are deposited on the mesh. In this method there would be no need to polygonalize the surface -- you just need to know how to intersect it. You can probably limit the solid angle into which you shoot from the light, so that a high percentage of the rays you shoot will be giving you information about the illumination of the floor. If you try to do the same thing by path tracing, you have a virtual source for every polygonal element on the water's surface. Then for every point on the ocean floor you need to trace a ray to each virtual source. A minute percentage of these traces are going to produce information about the illumination. In Sig. 91 the paper "A Progressive Multi-Pass Method for Global Illumination" discusses a classification of the paths that light takes from a source to a surface, and the types of algorithms that that are most efficient for each of them. -- Holly Rushmeier From holly@cam.nist.gov Sun Dec 4 11:06:39 1994 Return-Path: From: "Holly E Rushmeier" Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:50:38 -0500 References: <199412041630.LAA10249@tso2.tso.uc.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: "Tony Yuricich" , radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Water Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: R Oops, one other thing about caustics. The most recent paper I know of is "Adaptive Splatting for Specular to Diffuse Light Transport" by Steve Collins in the Eurographics Fifth Rendering Workshop. His email is Steven.Collins@cs.tcd.ie if you don't have the proceedings. Also, check out his home page -- http://vangogh.cs.tcd.ie/scollins/scollins.html for some really impressive caustic images under the description of his ray-tracing system (including the caustics from a crystal version of the space ship Enterprise). -- Holly From jedev@MIT.EDU Mon Dec 5 07:33:36 1994 Return-Path: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe Date: Mon, 05 Dec 1994 10:33:29 EST From: John E Devalpine Content-Length: 50 Status: R please subsribe me to the radiance-discuss group. From cloister@u.washington.edu Sun Dec 4 20:18:11 1994 Return-Path: X-Sender: cloister@saul5.u.washington.edu Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 20:08:09 -0800 (PST) From: cloister bell To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO coincidentally, i found a paper on the web the other day which bears quite directly on this discussion. greg, since you mention that you're just getting started on the research for this, you might want to check out the following URL: http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/cool/cool.html and look at the stuff on illumination from curved reflectors. no doubt you'll understand it a lot more than i did, but the chaps who wrote it seem to have found some nice ways to solve that problem analytically. From pgiagnoc@globalcom.net Mon Dec 5 09:21:06 1994 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 5 Dec 94 17:19:01 PST Reply-To: pgiagnoc@globalcom.net From: pgiagnoc@globalcom.net To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: SUBSCRIBE Status: RO subscribe patrickg@success.net Patrick Giagnocavo From absgh@bath.ac.uk Thu Dec 8 09:45:45 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 17:43:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Gazza To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R subscribe radiance discussion list Gary Hunt G.Hunt@bath.ac.uk From suchanek@pg.com Wed Dec 14 11:56:08 1994 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 14:56:55 -0500 From: suchanek@pg.com (Eric G. Suchanek) References: <9412141943.AA19745@hobbes.lbl.gov> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Subject: Re: Radiance under IRIX 5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: R I forgot to ask you - could you add me to the discussion list? Thanks! Eric suchanek -- Eric G. Suchanek - AKA: suchanek@pg.com, esuchanek@acm.org - http://info.acm.org/~esuchanek/homepage.html - Has anyone seen my fat angus drive? Joel MST3K From sabol@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Dec 29 11:23:29 1994 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 13:08:39 CST From: sabol@zen.wes.army.mil (Bruce Sabol) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: RADIANCE mailing list Status: RO Please add me to the RADIANCE mailing list: Bruce Sabol U.S. Army Waterways Experiment Station (EN-C) 3909 Halls Ferry Rd. Vicksburg, MS 39180 voice: 601-634-2297 E-mail: sabol@zen.wes.army.mil From z3mv@kmd-ac.dk Tue Jan 10 00:18:46 1995 Return-Path: Subject: Subscription To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:22:26 +0000 (GMT) From: "Martin Vennevold" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 119 X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: R Hi Greg, Please add me to your Radiance-related mailing-lists. Thanks in advance! Martin Vennevold, From chas@innernet.com Wed Jan 11 07:53:39 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 03:25:25 PDT From: Charles Ehrlich Subject: RADOUT AutoCAD --> Radiance ADS for DOS/Windows To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, chas@hobbes.lbl.gov X-Mailer: LeeMail 2.0.4 Status: RO I would like to hear from everyone interested in obtaining a copy of a DOS or Windows version of Radout, a AutoCAD add-on utility written in "C" by Philip Thompson of MIT, which works much like the "Torad" program, its AutoLISP predecessor. I have contracted with an individual who will begin work shortly on the job of porting the Unix ADS "C" code to the DOS and Windows platforms. He will not charge a lot of money, but enough that I will feel it. If you are willing to financially support this timely port to DOS and Windows, let me know. The code and executables themselves will be freely available once finished. For those who are willing to contribute $50.00 or more, I will also give you a copy of the Watcom 10.0a project file so that you could readily and easily improve upon the basic product. Why do want a DOS version of a Radiance geometry converter, you ask? Don't hold your breath, but soon Adeline will be available which contains a very robust MS-DOS port of Radiance. Please don't bug Greg Ward about this, you can but me: chas@innernet.com Charles Ehrlich -Chas From Steffen.Zahn%robinie@sunserv.sie.siemens.co.at Mon Jan 23 23:34:23 1995 Return-Path: Errors-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:32:25 --100 From: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@sunserv.sie.siemens.co.at (Steffen Zahn) Errors-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov X-Mn-Key: normal Errors-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at Reply-To: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at Content-Length: 479 Status: R Please include me in your radiance discussion list. I'm already on a list called `raydist@hobbes.lbl.gov', so if these lists are the same than please ignore this request. Steffen Zahn -- Steffen Zahn, phone: +49-30-386 24969, fax: +49-30-386 29626 email: Steffen.Zahn%robinie@emndev.siemens.co.at PGP Key fingerprint = EB A6 F1 48 FF 44 C4 15 6A BB E4 E6 3F 37 20 C2 Any opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer. From sick@ise.fhg.de Tue Jan 24 06:28:25 1995 Return-Path: From: sick@ise.fhg.de Subject: subscribe To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 15:13:55 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 473 Status: R subscription request to discussion group. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Friedrich Sick MAIL : Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems Oltmannsstr. 5 D-79100 Freiburg Germany PHONE: +49-(0)761-4588-133 FAX: +49-(0)761-4588-132 email: sick@ise.fhg.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From roberts@bacon.xs4all.nl Sat Jan 28 20:38:57 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:53:17 +0100 (MET) From: Robert Jan Schaper To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hi, Would you please add my name to the Radiance discussion list. Thanks, -Rob- From Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr Wed Feb 1 03:49:57 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 12:35:58 +0100 From: Jean Brange To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Arris to Radiance Translator Status: R Hello, I have written an Arris to Radiance Translator. oYou should find it in /pub/translators directory at hobbes.lbl.gov . If you use it let me know. Good luck! If there is any one in France who read this, he could contact me at: Jean Brange . Tel: 48048674 in Paris. Thank's. -JIB- From silovic@srce.hr Thu Feb 2 23:51:45 1995 Return-Path: From: silovic@srce.hr (Miroslav Silovic) Subject: List subscription To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 08:51:36 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 170 Status: RO subscribe silovic@regoc.srce.hr And in case it's not machine processed, thank you very much, Greg, and I'm very sorry I missed the existance of the list before. Miro From silovic@srce.hr Mon Feb 6 02:37:26 1995 Return-Path: From: silovic@srce.hr (Miroslav Silovic) Subject: [contrib] Hexagonal texture To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov (Radiance Dicussion) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 11:20:39 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1943 Status: RO Here is a nifty .cal file, which I put together while I was /really/ bored. :) Secundary purpose of this post is to test the mailing list (if I don't get anything back, it probably meant that .lbl nameserver doesn't like me. :) Anyway, here is the file. As a test, try to apply redt, greent and bluet as colorfunc on a horisontal plane. --snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip----snip-- { Scale and temporary function. In 'real' application, you may want to use A1 instead of scale2. Or just -s option. } scale2=0.1; es=.5+.5*turbulence(Px/scale2,Py/scale2,Pz/scale2,0.02); { Main hexagonal code. Functions: hexx(x,y) - take x and y and truncate them to hexagon. Return x coordinate hexy(x,y) - same thing, returns y coordinate Parameters for these functions must be inside the rectangle sqrt(3) x sqrt(3)/2 with one cornet at the origin; use recx and rexy to achieve this } sq3=sqrt(3); sq32=sq3/2; recx(x)=mod(x,3); recy(y)=mod(y,sq3*2); hex1x(x,y)= if(y-sq3*x, x+1.5, if(y-2*sq3+sq3*x, x-1.5, x)); hex1y(x,y)= if(y-sq3*x, y, if(y-2*sq3+sq3*x, y, sq32+y)); hexx(x,y)= if(sq32-y, hex1x(x,y), if(sq3-y, hex1x(x,sq3-y), if(1.5*sq3-y, hex1x(x,y-sq3), hex1x(x,2*sq3-y))))-1; hexy(x,y)= if(sq32-y, hex1y(x,y), if(sq3-y, sq3-hex1y(x,sq3-y), if(1.5*sq3-y, hex1y(x,y-sq3), sq3-hex1y(x,2*sq3-y))))-sq32; { Radial hex pattern. Hexrad takes x and y and returns 'distance' from the center of the hexagon containing the point } hexrad(x,y)=if(abs(y)-sq3*abs(x),abs(y),sq32*abs(x)+.5*abs(y)); hx=recx(Px/scale2); hy=recy(Py/scale2); et=hexrad(hexx(hx,hy),hexy(hx,hy))/sq32; { Some demonstrations } blue1=bezier(0,0,0.2,1,et); red1=bezier(0.6,0.2,1,1,et); green1=bezier(1,0.7,0,1,et); bluet=0; redt=if(et-0.8,1,0); greent=0; bluem=bezier(0,0,0.2,1,es); redm=bezier(0.6,0.2,1,1,es); greenm=bezier(1,0.7,0,1,es); offsx=hexx(hx,hy)*0.2; offsy=hexy(hx,hy)*0.2; offsz=0; From silovic@srce.hr Tue Feb 7 08:40:56 1995 Return-Path: From: silovic@srce.hr (Miroslav Silovic) Subject: Extending Radiance To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov (Radiance Dicussion) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 17:02:08 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1928 Status: RO I have a good idea about extending Rad with new materials/objects. I'd like to code a new material type, which would be used like this: extension 1 filename S1 S2 S3 ... Sn 0 n A1 A2 A3 ... An This is the idea: When filename is encountered for the first time in this context, the program 'filename' is run as a subprocess. Whenever this material is evaluated, the process receives parameters and the ray to trace, and is expected to reply with ... whatever material type is supposed to reply with. Protocol should also allow the extension program to ask the main tracer for more traces. It could be used (for instance) for new lighting models, and even new primitives. Example: heighfield primitive (I know Rad can handle them with gensurf, but only to some 50x50, and really detailed graphics requires 500x500 or more, and the only way to work with that is quad subdivision, not octree). One would be able to define a box of heightfield extension material. Extension function requests a raytrace /into/ the box from the main program. Then it tries to intersect the ray with the surface of the heightfield. If the second intersection is closer than the first, it signals the main program. Otherwise, it just behaves as if the box is perfectly transparent. Of course, the exact communication protocol should be set. Extension program, for example, should be able to handle a case when it requests a trace from the rpict, and gets another trace request recursively. Also, the program should be able to tell the main application something like /now trace from this point, with the new object material named <...>/. So, I need somebody who knows Radiance sources and has time to help me with this - I tried to analyze them, and while I have a global idea what's happening, I don't know how to intervene in the process. Hands-on example of what to do to add a new material would be the best. Miro From rsteven@evl.eecs.uic.edu Mon Feb 13 10:58:25 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:56:00 -0600 (CST) From: Rob Stevenson To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: your mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. Please subscribe me to both mailing lists.... Thanks, Rob From cta.bc.ca!rand@nebulus.net Mon Feb 20 08:42:40 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 13:30 PST From: rand@cta.bc.ca (Rand Thompson) To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance - ARRIS Status: RO Greg, Thanks for Jean Brange's address. With respect to the Radiance discussion group list and the Radiance digest list, we only have e-mail access to the internet, no ftp or newsgroups. Considering this we would be pleased to be on these lists if it would still be of value. Rand. From N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 02:49:25 1995 Return-Path: From: Neil Ashdown Organization: Manchester Metropolitan University To: GJWard@lbl.gov Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 10:29:49 GMT Subject: Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Status: RO ~s New RADIANCE 2.4 user Mail address: Neil Ashdown Department of Architecture, Landscape and 3D Design Manchester Metropolitan University Chatham Building Cavendish Street Manchester M15 6BR UNITED KINGDOM Phone: +44 (0)161 247 1134 E-mail: N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk Add to discussion group: y Add to mailing list: y Machine: Silicon Graphics Indigo Iris System: IRIX 5.2 Source: BRE Application: Daylighting of buildings - effects of trees From clcv64@ccsun.strath.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 09:59:56 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 17:57:59 +0000 From: clcv64 To: gjward@lbl.gov. Content-Length: 653 Status: R Dear Mr. Greg Ward, I would like to ask you to subscribe me for RADIANCE discussion group in order to be up to date with latest work people are doing with RADIANCE and generally in lighting simulation. I currently work on coupling lighting and thermal simulation tools particularly Radiance and ESP-r. With best regards, Milan Janak. ********************************* Milan Janak Enery Systems Research Unit Energy Systems Division Mechanical Engineering Department James Weir Building 75 Montrose Street Glasgow G1 1XJ Scotland, UK. Tel +44 41 552 4400 Ext. 3747 Fax +44 41 552 8513 e-mail: m.janak@strath.ac.uk ********************************* From Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr Wed Feb 22 09:31:08 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:10:10 +0100 From: Jean Brange To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Arris2rad converter Status: R Hello New version of Arris2rad converter has arrived. You will find new functionalities. Jean. From gerold@ise.fhg.de Fri Feb 24 01:47:02 1995 Return-Path: From: gerold@ise.fhg.de Subject: Subscription to discussion group To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 10:46:41 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 706 Status: R Hi Greg or whoever will receive this mail, I'd like to subscribe to the radiance discussion group. Is it correct that all the questions and answers should be send to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov and administrative questions to the current email address? Besides me Manuel Goller also likes to subscribe to the group. Our email addresses are: Gerold: gerold@ise.fhg.de Manuel: manuel@ise.fhg.de Thanks a lot. Gerold -- Gerold Furler MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems Oltmannsstr. 5, 79100 Freiburg, Germany PHONE: +49 (761) 4588 308 FAX: +49 (761) 4588 100 EMAIL: gerold@ise.fhg.de From stuartl@netcom.com Fri Feb 24 08:34:49 1995 Return-Path: From: stuartl@netcom.com (Stuart Lewis) Subject: Installing Radiance in LINUX To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 08:19:30 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1246 Status: R The good news is, it works just fine. However, I thought I would make anyone who is planning to do this aware of a problem that will occur with certain LINUX distributions: The version of the 'ed' line editor included in these packages is not fully POSIX. When 'makeall install' is run a non-fatal error will occur when the scipt attempts to customize the malloc options, then a fatal error will occur when the VERSION file is created. As a result, most of the binaries will compile, but not the really neccessary ones like rad and rview. To determine if your version of 'ed' is compatible, the easiest way (as I have been told) of verifying this is to invoke ed like so: "ed --help". If this does not return a help message, that indicates that you do not have gnu ed and chances are the version you /do/ have may not be POSIX. An older version of 'ed' from the LINUX archive seems to work with the Radiance scripts, or you can ftp gnu ed from prep.ai.mit.edu. Also, from my experience it would be a good idea to have at least 32M of (RAM + Swap) on your machine, if possible. Good luck! Stuart Lewis, stuartl@netcom.com <-- New address! stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu <-- Soon-to-be-old address slewis@ashrae.com From cloister@u.washington.edu Fri Feb 24 11:57:10 1995 Return-Path: X-Sender: cloister@saul2.u.washington.edu Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:41:36 -0800 (PST) From: cloister bell To: Stuart Lewis Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Installing Radiance in LINUX Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R [ ed stuff deleted ] > An older version of 'ed' from the LINUX archive seems to work with the > Radiance scripts, or you can ftp gnu ed from prep.ai.mit.edu. fyi, whatever ed comes with slackware 2.0 (possibly 2.x; i haven't updated in a while) worked fine for me. > Also, from my experience it would be a good idea to have at least 32M of > (RAM + Swap) on your machine, if possible. i have found that scenes render just fine on my 16mb machine. so long as you don't do anything dumb like try to start emacs on a large file while rendering you shouldn't get a whole lot of swapping (unless you have some really huge scene files or something). From toddb@sva.edu Mon Feb 27 13:13:57 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 13:13:52 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Brous To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: 'Re: info' <- oops.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Oh, I am SOOOO sorry! I thought I was sending a message to the Listserv about 'how I should subscribe' I sincerely apologize if my message was sent to everyone. (I have just made the 'net.newbie' cardinal SIN!!! May my computer refuse to respond to 'ls -a' for all eternity...) I would like to subscribe to the mailing lists though. Could you please point me in the right direction for them. Also, I would just like to say that Radiance is AMAZING!!!! I have spent the weekend reading the manuals, and I cannot wait to get some time to really try it out. Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Todd Brous *************************************** Todd Brous toadler@panix.com toddb@sva.edu "...prolix and ponderous prose..." -Hubert Skinner *************************************** From gerold@ise.fhg.de Tue Feb 28 03:50:19 1995 Return-Path: From: gerold@ise.fhg.de Subject: Venetian blinds To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:12:24 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 837 Status: RO Hi out there, why to invent the wheel twice so I thought I ask the radiance group if somebody modeled the BRDF function of a venetian blind already. So, did somebody???? Currently we work on a project where we need this kind of information. Right now we model the store geometrically but the computing time increased a lot of course. What we need is a 3D BRDF model which is able to take into account: - a variable geometry of the laminas - diffus and direct reflection should be possible Can we get help from somebody????????? Thanks a lot. Gerold -- Gerold Furler MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems Oltmannsstr. 5, 79100 Freiburg, Germany PHONE: +49 (761) 4588 308 FAX: +49 (761) 4588 100 EMAIL: gerold@ise.fhg.de From stuartl@netcom.com Thu Mar 2 13:21:30 1995 Return-Path: From: stuartl@netcom.com (Stuart Lewis) Subject: modifications to dayfact.csh To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 07:54:46 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 269 Status: R I was just about to sit down and try to modify dayfact.csh to perform illuminance mapping on non-horizontal planes, but before I did I thought I would check to see if anyone has done this already. Anyone? Thanks! Stuart Lewis, stuartl@netcom.com slewis@ashrae.com From cloister@u.washington.edu Sat Mar 4 13:07:18 1995 Return-Path: X-Sender: cloister@saul2.u.washington.edu Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 12:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: cloister bell To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: rpict isn't supposed to core dump! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R can anyone tell me what i should do about this? here's my bath.rif file: # rad input file for bathroom scene ZONE = INTERIOR 0 84 0 100 0 100 # input files: (bath.rad imports everything else in) scene = materials bath.rad # parameters EXPOSURE = 1.0 VARIABILITY = HIGH DETAIL = HIGH QUALITY = MED INDIRECT = 1 AMBFILE = bath.amb RESOLUTION = 512 PENUMBRAS = TRUE REPORT = 5 render = -e progress view= -vtv -vp 70 5 60 -vd -0.699127 0.649189 -0.299626 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 45 -vv 45 -vs 0 -vl 0 # and here's what ends up in the "progress" file when i typed "rad bath.rif&": ************** *** PID 25426: rpict -t 300 -vtv -vp 70 5 60 -vd -0.699127 0.649189 -0.299626 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 45 -vv 45 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 33 -ds .2 -dj .5 -dt .1 -dc .5 -dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 1 -af bath.amb -aa .15 -ad 768 -as 196 -av 0.5 0.5 0.5 -lr 6 -lw .002 -e progress -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1 bath.oct rpict: consistency - zero ambient radius in avinsert and of course, since rpict doesn't have any debugging symbols in it, all i can tell you is that "gdb rpict core" tells me this: GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.12 (i486-unknown-linux), Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc... (no debugging symbols found)... Core was generated by `rpict'. #0 0x600305cc in ?? () this is on a i486 100mhz linux 1.0.9 machine with 16mb ram. help? From greg Sun Mar 5 09:53:11 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 09:10:33 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: cloister@u.washington.edu, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: rpict isn't supposed to core dump! Status: R Hi Jason, I agree that rpict shouldn't dump core!! The problem is not anything you're doing -- it's that the ambient file has been corrupted. There's little you can do to remedy the situation besides removing the ambient file and starting over. I've seen this happen before under two circumstances. The first is when a machine using NFS for its file accesses crashes, and the file ends up with a whole mess of empty records at the end. The second is where you have a number of rpict processes sharing the ambient file using NFS, and a bug in the network lock manager allows the file to be corrupted by not properly managing contentious requests. In both cases, it is safest to remove the ambient file and start again. In the first case, it is possible to use lookamb to find where the bad records begin, and save the good ones, but this is extra for experts. I figured I should reply to this one not only because I've encountered the problem before, but also because I want to see what mail bounces on the discussion list. I don't have a list server, so my mailer bounces all failed mail to the originator, which is whoever made the posting. It's very annoying, and the only way to fix it is to remove the bad addresses by hand. If I don't see the bounces, I don't make the corrections, so bear with me. -Greg From greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Wed Mar 8 19:01:45 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 13:54:54 PST From: "Gregory J. Ward" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler Here is some mail forwarded from Georg Mischler, who wrote the famous AutoCAD translator "torad".... >From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Mon Mar 6 12:48:06 1995 Return-Path: From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: HW price/performance-usability To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 21:31:16 +0100 (MET) Status: R [for forwarding to radiance-discuss] Hello all, looks like I might join the radiance crew again in the near future :-) I am currently evaluating low cost hardware/system platforms for running radiance together with autocad in the lighting design practice where I work. Now before I have the dealers telling me stories I'd like to hear if anyone else has made experiances with the platforms mentioned below (or similar) and can direct me to the solution offering the best price to performance/usability relation if wired into a multiplatform networking environment. My favorites up to now are a PC 486DX4/Pentium-100 with linux or an SGI indy of yet unknown configuration. I know that I can run autocad on a SGI directly, in contrast to a linux solution where I'd still need my mac on the same desk (or has someone managed to run the SCO version of R12 with linux?). Other criteria will be (besides purchase prize): - Raw speed - Does radiance run noticeably faster on a pentium compared to a 486DX4 (will gcc optimize)? - Does the difference correspond to the higher cost? - Same question for Indy (let's say a R4600) against pentium 100. - Maintenance - Required time? - Required special knoweledge? - Support What are the experiances with (maybe paid for) support for linux over the net? - Availablility? - Response time? - Cost? - Bugs Now this *had* to come up here eventually. Are there any experiances or theoretical considerations about the way the pentium fdiv bug might influence the operation of radiance? I know most of the details about the bug itself. With respect to the kind of work radiance does, I expect an occurence at least every few hours. How will such a reduction in accuracy effect the output? Will it disappear in the noise created by the monte carlo ray distribution algorythms or will the recursive nature of diffuse interreflection calculation increase the effect of the aberration? I'd like to hear from anyone running radiance on a pentium if there are any noticeable effects at all, and if, what they look like. No, I won't panick in front of the "warning label" ;-) - Anything else to consider? I imagine a setup with a large monitor (20"), 1GB SCSI HD, 32MB RAM, Ethernet and a fast bus system (PCI/VLB for the PC). I don't care for real time graphics too much at the moment. Just in case it should make any difference: Our local subnet connects 10 Macs and a PC (DOS/Win) over Ethertalk/IP. Those are then connected to other PC networks (DOS/Win/Novell 4.1) and a unix cluster (AIX/IP) which in turn are linked over ISDN (IP) to several similar sites. I know that I might use the AIX clusters for distributed renderings (at least at night). The system in question is for me to work with during daytime, when those machines are used for other purposes. Many thanks to anyone who taking the time to share his or her experiances. Georg ** Georg Mischler \ / HL-Technik AG, Lichtplanung / Lighting Design Tageslichtsysteme - O - Wolfratshauserstrasse 56 T: +49-89-724 06 315 Daylight Systems / \ 81375 Muenchen, Germany F: +49-89-724 06 309 >From u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Mon Mar 6 12:49:04 1995 Return-Path: From: u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: daylight redirection simulation To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 21:32:10 +0100 (MET) Status: R [for forwarding to radiance-discuss] Hi again once at it, I won't run out of questions too soon... I plan using radiance to calculate the effects of daylight redirection systems (is there a better english term?) like prism panels, raster, metallic louvers or maybe even holographic systems. My ideas on how to proceed are still a little vague at the moment, but I see a direction, into which I want to research further. Before I do so, I'd like to hear if anyone has tried similar things already and what results are available from this. To acheive a decent image quality in reasonable time I will have to use mkillum to precompute the light distribution on the inside surfaces of the systems in question (most of the time they will be encapsulated within insulating glasses). There are two main problems that I see arise: Reflecting geometry. Most metallic raster and louver systems have geometrical properties that are very difficult to model mathemathically, if the surface curve equations are known at all. The only method I see to simulate those will require elaborate .cal files defining the output distribution for any arbitrary input ray. At this point I expect performance problems that might make it difficult to evaluate different solutions in a more or less interactive way. Is there an easy way to interface mkillum to compiled functions? Can this be done from within a .cal file, or used instead? If not, how difficult will it be to modify mkillum to make it possible? Gerold Furler suggested here recently to use BRDF functions to solve a similar problem. I havn't looked at these very closely yet. Is this really a way to go? Wavelength dependancy. Prism panels, though simple enough geometrically for being fully modeled, use special coatings to influence the refractive index depending on the color of input rays. This allows for reflecting direct sunlight while transmitting light from the sky. As far as I know, radiance doesn't support such a behaviour directly. Is there a simple way to circumvent this restriction or might that lead to an extension of mkillum again? Can mkillum superimpose the results of two runs (one with sun only, one without) in a single set of output data? Or might there be a trick available, like checking for the size of a light source from a .cal function? (the sun is usually much smaller than the sky...) Are there hidden features in mkillum that I have missed so far? Thanks for any suggestion Georg ** Georg Mischler \ / HL-Technik AG, Lichtplanung / Lighting Design Tageslichtsysteme - O - Wolfratshauserstrasse 56 T: +49-89-724 06 315 Daylight Systems / \ 81375 Muenchen, Germany F: +49-89-724 06 309 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will be interested to hear if anyone responds to the mkillum questions. I promise not to be too hard on people who make potshots or guesses, since I don't know how to answer this myself. -Greg From artlite@iaccess.za Tue Mar 7 18:47:16 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 04:15:05 +0000 From: Artlite - Gavin Donaldson-Selby Subject: Re: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler To: "Gregory J. Ward" Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R With respect to the question of running SCO R12 on Linux I believe that Linux 1.2 -due to be released in the next few days- will have considerable Sparc and SCO binary compatibility. It might be worth waiting to see! Regards Gavin |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | GH Donaldson-Selby Ph: SA 31 225 2194 | | Dept. of Drama and Theatre Craft Fax: SA 31 223 405 | | Technikon Natal E-mail: artlite@iaccess.za | | Po Box 953 | | Durban 4001 Linux for a GNU | | Republic of South Africa. South Africa | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Tue Mar 7 23:32:11 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 01:59:47 -0500 From: "Eric Ost" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: Re: HW price/performance-usability Status: RO Greetings Georg, This is a preliminary response to your note regarding low-cost hardware and software environments for running Radiance and AutoCAD. We have been running Radiance under Linux here for over a year and on SGIs for a longer period than that. Recently, the University installed a cluster of 20+ SGI IndySCs. Though I am unable to respond fully to your message at this moment, this note it to let you know that there are other people out here running Radiance on 486/586 hardware under Linux. In my next note I will attempt to address your questions pertaining to raw speed, maintenance, support, and bugs. More soon, eric ps: you asked specifically about the 586 fdiv bug. Intel is supporting a trade-in whereby you request a replacement 586 CPU that doesn't have the fdiv bug and, in return, you send them your old CPU. If you purchase a new 586 system, you can ask the salesperson if they know whether the CPU you're considering is one that has the fdiv bug. From greg Thu Mar 9 11:33:45 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 11:20:26 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance mail from Stephen Benson Status: R Here are some questions from Stephen Benson, who is one of many people who has trouble with my silly mail server not accepting connections for the radiance-discuss alias. (Those who are lucky enough to have their mail accepted are also rewarded by many bounced mails from bad addresses. Ah, the joys of modern life!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm investigating ways of bringing models from other popular RTs into Radiance (.nff looks like a good bet -- but I don't know much about it). There's a suite of tools for RTrace/LightR on asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] that look interesting): >Here goes a short description of current converters from >CAD/molecular/chemistry packages to the SCN format. > >The package programs are related as below (those marked with * have been >modified) > > irit2scn > IRIT ----------------| > | NFF (nffclean, nffp2pp) > sol2scn | | > ACAD11/12 ---------------| | nff2sff > | | > mol2scn v scn2sff* v rtrace* > ALCHEMY -----------> SCN -----------> SFF ----------> PIC or PPM > ^ cpp ^ | > pdb2scn | | picmix > PDB -----------------| | picblend > | | ppmmix > chem2scn | SPD generators ppmblend > CHEMICAL --------------| balls > | rings > 3ds2scn | tetra > 3D STUDIO --------------| teapot > | ... > iv2scn | > IRIS Inventor -----------| > | > obj2scn | > Wavefront -------------| > | > | > LightR lightr* | > (radiosity) -------------| > > >Docs/sff*.ps.gz | SFF spec in Postscript (GZIP) >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >Docs/scn*.ps.gz | SCN spec in Postscript (GZIP) >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >nff.tar.Z | the Eric Haines scene generators (NFF scenes) > | Version 3.3 (= SPDup33b.tar.Z) >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >nffutils.tar.Z | some programs for converting to NFF or to filter > | NFF scenes with some problems... >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >sff.tar.Z | a converter from NFF to SFF (the input format of > | the ray-tracer) (= nff2sff.tar.Z) >-------------- Does anyone have any experience along these lines? Is it worth pursuing? And any comments on the RTrace/LightR combination (which I'm yet to try). -- : stephen benson : : : : : : : : stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net From M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL Fri Mar 10 01:38:05 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 10:37:14 +0100 (MET) From: Maus Subject: subscription To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Could you please subscribe me to the Radiance discussion group? Thanks! Maurice Bierhuizen. Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands. From chas@innernet.com Fri Mar 10 03:52:55 1995 Return-Path: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 00:12:21 -0800 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: chas@innernet.com (Charles Ehrlich) Subject: Re: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler Status: R Glad to hear your back, Georg. I have made good use of your Torad program. And perhaps you all would be interested to know that I hired a consultant to port the Unix-AutoCAD ADS/C version of Torad called Radout by Philip Thompson of MIT...to DOS and Windows. Yes, this is a self-plug. Radout for Windows runs between 4 and 7 times faster than the respectable, but hopelessly slow AutoLISP Torad. I exported a 36,000 entity drawing in 15 minutes on a Pentium 90! The binaries are available on my WWW server. The binaries are free with registration. I am asking for a donation of $50 US from those who use it commercially which will also get you the source code, if you so desire. Point your favorate forms-capable WWW browser at: URL: http://innernet.com/radiance/home.html pick -> Radout <- Special enhancements I funded include automatic 8.3 file naming from layer names, support for closed 3DPLINES (3 or 4 vertices always work, more than 4 work if flat.) And, the output prefix name now specifies the full pathname to a directory, created if non existant, for the destination of the exported Radiance stuff. Oh yea, unique file naming is documented with a Layername to filename lookup in the .RIF file. Now onto your questions. I designed and set up a Pentium 90 workstation for a client which I use regularly. I am very impressed with its speed! It runs Yggdrasil Linux 1.0x, 48MB RAM, Stealth DRAM 24 PCI, on a 1Gig IDE, 2X CDROM, C3509, and 2-4GB DAT drive. Monitor is a 1200x1600 17" multi-sync type. Total cost $5500.00. Actually, now that the replacement Pentium has arrived, I bumped the motherboard up to 100Mhz and it all works 10% faster. My solution to the AutoCAD for unix problem is to not bother with it. When I want to run AutoCAD, I just reboot the machine into DOS. Don't despair, it takes no more than 2 minutes...much faster than my beleagured 030 Mac at home! Hence, the DOS/Windows port of Radout! I chose the motherboard carefully to maximize the amount of Cache SRAM and RAM configuration/expansion flexibility. The cache SRAM is important for Linux when there is more than the standard 16MB of RAM. Without it, the machine actually slows down. I wish I had some profiling code to compile and run on it. The Stealth board took me way too long to configure, but now that it works, it SCREAMS! The feel of this machine is faster than the Iris Indigo Extreme I used six months ago. Forget the Indy PC/SC! The only time the machine shows its processors brain-deadness is when pfilt/pcomb/p*** are used. The floating point slowness really slows it down...but not so much that it bothers me. Don't bother with $GI's! For networking savvy, Linux can't be beat. If you find the right FAQ/Tips publication, you can set up the machine to share a swap partition with Windows. This won't help you with AutoCAD, to my dismay, because it uses its own #$!&* page file system. Raw speed blazes over 486's, no, gcc does not optomize for 586 See above. More money spent on the RAM than anything else. Forget the Indy Maintenance Linux supports the DAT drive out of the box. Just tar -cvf /dev/nst0 and your sailing. I used a Python DAT. Creating users with the Yggdrasil version is supposed to be automated with a tcl script, but I always end up futzing with the /etc/passwd file. It does help to get the syntax right. No special maintenance needed so far, except replacement of the 586 and changing a few jumpers for 100Mhz. Setup of Linux, regardless of what they'd like you to believe, is a bad dream (not quite a nightmare). Support Excellent, user-base provided support. No question has gone unanswered by the various Usenet news groups longer than 4 hours! Cost is the cost of my internet link = $100/mo. full time. Plug--I am also available on a pre-arranged basis for Linux and Radiance support via phone or email. $50-60/hr. Bugs For the 4 months I worked with the FDVI Pentium, I experienced ZERO problems. Whenever I suspected one, it was human (me) error. Other considerations Novel has released Unixware 2.0 which supports a few popular, less-expensive than Sun, multi-processing Pentium boxes. Unixware is now multi-threaded. If I had the dough and needed renderings to finish before I let go of the RETURN key, I'd probably buy a 2-3 processor Pentium with Unixware 2.0. On the other hand, I also might wait for the initial bugs of the 2.0 release to settle. This would only help for batch processing of images with the image split between separate processors, as you may already know. I'd check out the NFS on the AIX clusters. Network Lock manager is even buggy on some Suns! You should get good performance out of the PowerPC's in those AIX's. Radiance for DOS does exist in the form of Adeline. Issues of maximum RAM supported by the RAM extender/loader still exist in my mind, but apparently, one version can support 64 MB of physical RAM and 2GB of virtual. Adeline includes a few unix- like tools for making the whole suite, including mkillum, work under DOS. Stay tuned. Plans for use of Radiance What radiance needs is someone like Georg to write a forward ray-tracing module to help deal with the kinds of issues you are interested in tackling. Greg spent a summer in Lusanne writing Mkillum, adding the prism2 stuff and other utilities for calculating prismatic glazing properties. Yes, theoretically if you had BRTF data that was complete, you could do without he air-glass interface of the prismatic glazing, but you'll spend as much money on gonio-reflectometer use as you would on radiance rendering. It might even be cheaper to hire a programmer to write the kind of code you need. :-) To acheive _any_image_of_any_semblance_to_reality_ you'll need to use mkillum intil you're blue in the face. As far as I understand, you'll have to use elaborate .cal files regardless of the method you employ (see prism.cal). In a very old version of Radiance, I remember that there existed a compile-time option for enabling wavelength dependant refractive index simulation. What has happened with this option, Greg? You will have to use three .cal files, three sets of BRTF and .dat files, and three times the calculation time (?). As far as separating the direct and indirect sky components, I'm not sure. I bet there would be a way to write an rcalc/.cal routine that would add the two sets of numbers together, but if you know awk or perl, it might be easier to do it that way. As far as getting the input, I modified gensky.c to add a command line option to turn off the sky (only the solar source left). I also, incidently, created a version that would let me specify the color of the solar source on the !genclrsky command line. Congrats on your new (?) job at Tageslichtsysteme! -Chas +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Charles Ehrlich | Radiance Consulting & Training for | | Space & Light | Lighting & Daylighting Analysis | | radiance@innernet.com | Energy Efficiency and Visual Comfort | | 842 Folsom St. #197, SF, CA | | | 415 905-4438 24hr messages | http://innernet.com/radiance/home.html | +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From vancaneg@esemetz.ese-metz.fr Thu Mar 9 02:06:16 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu Mar 09 10:54:00 1995 From: vancaneg@esemetz.ese-metz.fr To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Status: RO subscribe Nicolas Van Caneghem From u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU Mon Mar 20 21:31:35 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:31:12 +1000 (EST) From: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA Subject: Subscription To: Radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hi, Could you please subsribe me? Thankyou, Mwaniki. University of New South Wales, School of Architecture, SOLARCH, Kensington 2052 NSW Australia. From root@jenlain.via.ecp.fr Tue Mar 21 10:03:00 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:57:31 +0100 From: root To: GJWard@lbl.gov Status: R ~s New RADIANCE 2.4 user Mail address: Thomas JACQUES Residence ECP - chambre I124 2 avenue Sully Prudhomme 92290 CHATENAY-MALABRY FRANCE Phone: 46837948 E-mail: jacquet7@cti.ecp.fr Add to discussion group: y Add to mailing list: y Machine: jenlain.via.ecp.fr System: linux Source: friends Application: From pauden@slim.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 21 16:00:33 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:34:05 GMT From: Paul Auden Reply-To: pauden@slim.demon.co.uk To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: (none) X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 1 Status: R subscribe radiance-discuss Paul Auden From u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU Wed Mar 22 20:53:06 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:38:47 +1000 (EST) From: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA Sender: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA Reply-To: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA Subject: Accurate measurements of Illuminance To: Radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: R Hi Radiance users, My name is Mwaniki, a Phd student at the School of Architecture, University of New South Wales, Sydney, studying daylighting in buildings. My particular interest is the interaction of sunlight with buildings. One of our research units recently acquired the "Adeline" programme, with "Radiance" intergrated within, which runs on PCs on the DOS operating system. In running Radiance, I am having difficulties in obtaining readings of illuminance on points at horizontal and vertical surfaces once a scene has been rendered. What steps should I consider to achieve this? Also, is there a way of plotting off graphs of readings taken, directly, in the DOS environment. I would highly appreciate some insight on this. -Mwaniki. From rn@sci.kup.fca.de Fri Mar 24 01:14:32 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:09:38 +0100 From: Rolf Neugebauer To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: subsribe Status: R Hi I'd like to subscribe to both lists. Rolf From u2126609@arch.unsw.EDU.AU Mon Mar 27 16:06:35 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:50:00 +1000 (EST) From: Mwaniki WA-GICHIA Subject: Illuminance at points. To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hi Radiance users, My name is Mwaniki wa-Gichia, a Phd student at the School of Architecture, University of New South Wales, Sydney, studying daylighting in buildings. My particular interest is the interaction of sunlight with buildings. One of our research units recently acquired the "Adeline" programme, with "Radiance" intergrated within, which runs on PCs on the DOS operating system. In running Radiance in this environment, I am having difficulties in obtaining illuminance on points at horizontal and vertical surfaces once a scene has been rendered. What steps should I consider, to achieve this?I would highly appreciate some insight on this. -Mwaniki. From Martin_Moeck@macmail.lbl.gov Thu Mar 30 08:49:47 1995 Return-Path: Date: 30 Mar 1995 08:49:12 U From: "Martin Moeck" Subject: FWD>Illuminance measurement To: "Martin Moeck" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP/QM 3.0.0 Status: RO Mail*Link(r) SMTP FWD>Illuminance measurements Reply to: RE>Accurate measurements of Illuminance You have two options for doing this: 1.) use the falsecolor program 2.) use rtrace Option 2 works as follows: a) Note the x y z -coordinates of all the points you are interested in. If you have difficulties obtaining those, hit the "t"-key and then the return-key while running rview b) create a textfile called samples.inp and write the following information into it: x-coordinate-1 y-coordinate-1 z-coordinate-1 x-dir y-dir z-dir x-coordinate-2 y-coordinate-2 z-coordinate-2 x-dir y-dir z-dir ... for all the points you are interested in. x-dir y-dir z-dir stands for the direction of measurement (in which direction is the photocell aimed). For a sensor looking straight up, it would be 0 0 1. For a sensor on a wall looking east, it would be 1 0 0 . b) execute the following command : rtrace -h -I -ab 2 -ad 128 -av .02 .02 .02 your_octree_name < samples.inp | rcalc -e $1=$1*54+$2*106+$3*20 > samples.out You will find illuminance values for all the listed points in the file samples.out Hope that helps Martin Moeck Lawrence Berkeley Lab. Building Technologies Program Berkeley, CA e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Thu Mar 30 12:36:58 1995 Return-Path: From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 15:21:25 EST To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: What/where is "make"? Status: R I downloaded and compiled Radiance 2.4 on my RS6000 and noticed a reference in the "rad" man page to a program called "make". I don't see "make" in the bin directory... What is it and where do I get it? Dave From RGMARC@ENGR.PSU.EDU Thu Mar 30 13:03:01 1995 Return-Path: Date: 30 Mar 1995 16:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard G. Mistrick" Subject: Modeling a bollard To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov, radiance-discuss@lbl.gov X-Vms-To: IN%"radiance-discuss@lbl.gov",IN%"greg@hobbes.lbl.gov" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: R A student of mine is trying to model an exterior bollard (a cylinder with a light emitting area which is a portion of the cylinder near the top). An IES photometric file is being used as input. Could someone provide some advice to help us get an accurate model? The ies2rad command creates a rectangular light source. We have modified this area to be a cylinder and have assigned the light emitting modifier (the candela distribution) provided by ies2rad for the rectangle to this cylinder. Is it necessary to account for the fact that the cylinder has a different area than the rectangle? Will the distribution be handled properly since the cylinder surface is essentially vertical, but the rectangular surface is horizontal? Additional questions involve the modeling of the cylinder to have the luminous outside of the luminous portion of the cylinder treated as a light emitting surface. In simply running rpict, the cylinder is considered as a point source. This results in shadowing by the bollard's base. Are there key options in rpict or options in rad that will consider the light to be emitted from the outside surface of the cylinder and not be therefore not be shadowed by the metal pole on which it rests? Any technical advice on these issues to help us achieve accurate calculations is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Richard G. Mistrick, Ph.D. Department of Architectural Engineering Penn State University Phone: (814) 863-2086 104 Engineering "A" FAX: (814) 863-4789 University Park, PA 16802 Internet: rgmarc@engr.psu.edu From cloister@hhhh.org Thu Mar 30 13:20:43 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 12:47:27 -0800 (PST) From: cloister bell To: "David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880" Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: What/where is "make"? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R > I downloaded and compiled Radiance 2.4 on my RS6000 and noticed a reference > in the "rad" man page to a program called "make". I don't see "make" in the bin directory... > What is it and where do I get it? make is the standard unix utility for controlling complicated compilations. thus, there is no reason to expect to see it in radiance's bin directory. on my system, it's in /usr/bin/make, and you ought to be able to read about it using "man make". From greg Thu Mar 30 17:09:22 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 16:42:40 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Re: Modeling a bollard Status: R Hi Rick, This is going to sound really stupid, but your best bet with the current implementation of ies2rad is to use the "-i rad" option to specify an illum source of radius "rad" instead of the default geometry. For the radius, you should use a largish number, say equal to the height of the original emitting cylinder. If you don't intend to set PENUMBRAS to True in your rad input file or set the -dj rendering option, you can increase the illum radius further to reduce the pole shadow problem. Otherwise, if you do request penumbras, rpict will overestimate them more the larger this radius is. I feel like I should apologize for the poor source sampling code in Radiance, but the speed of these routines is so important to the rendering time, that getting fancy with them would undoubtedly be a mistake for most scenes. The other problem is of course that ies2rad is not as clever as it might be in generating source geometry. In the future, the situation will improve as MGF (the Materials and Geometry Format) is adopted by the IES to supplement the impoverished geometry information currently contained in luminaire files, but even this will not fix the kind of problem you are seeing here with source interference. Good luck. -Greg From borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV Thu Mar 30 15:14:36 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:09:47 +0700 From: borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV (Christoph Borel) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 609 Status: RO Please subscribe me - thanks Chris e-mail address : cborel@lanl.gov *==========================================================================* * Christoph C. Borel, Nonproliferation and International Security Division * * Astrophysics and Radiation Measurements Group, NIS-2, MS D436, * * Los Alamos National Laboratory * * Los Alamos, NM 87545, USA, (505)-667-8972 FAX (505)-667-3815 * * E-mail : borel@sensor2.lanl.gov or ccb@lanl.gov or cborel@lanl.gov * *==========================================================================* From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Fri Mar 31 07:40:51 1995 Return-Path: From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:24:22 EST To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Intensity with distance Status: R Does Radiance 2.4 correctly take into account the decrease in intensity with distance from the light source? Dave From greg Fri Mar 31 10:52:13 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 10:40:07 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Intensity with distance Status: R iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky) asks: > Does Radiance 2.4 correctly take into account the decrease in intensity > with distance from the light source? The short answer is 'yes.' The long answer is that Radiance does make certain approximations for the sake of computational efficiency in the computation of solid angles, which may show up as small errors in some extreme situations. These errors in the fall-off (solid angle) calculation are usually insignificant relative to visibility errors, which are minimized but not eliminated by Monte Carlo source sampling. I guess what I'm saying is that the software is not perfect in its calculation of light source contributions, but it's a lot closer than what you might get in a standard ray-tracer and quite good enough for most purposes. -Greg From M.Velds@bk.tudelft.nl Wed Apr 5 00:25:32 1995 Return-Path: X-Sender: bksvelds@dutkitm.bk.tudelft.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 09:22:42 +0100 To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) From: M.Velds@bk.tudelft.nl (Martine Velds) Subject: Re: SUBSCRIBE X-Mailer: Status: R >Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request > >Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, >or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to >the announcement list only, or to both lists. > >-Greg > > Please subscribe to both lists, Thanks, Martine Velds From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Wed Apr 5 08:23:30 1995 Return-Path: From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 09:16:29 EST To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: I moved the lib files and Rad can't find some stuff... Status: R Is there a way to tell Rad and Rpict where to find the lib files? I moved them and now it's complaining it can't find some files... Dave From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Wed Apr 5 08:55:25 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:32:31 -0500 From: "Eric Ost" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: I moved the lib files and Rad can't find some stuff... Status: R Greetings Dave, The "RAYPATH" shell environment variable can contain a list of directories to be inspected for Radiance library files. For example, if the distributed lib directory is /usr/radiance/lib and you also want to search the two additional directories /usr/projects/bigproj/lib and /u/iesdp/raylib, as well as search the current working directory, ., then you could set RAYPATH as follows: setenv RAYPATH ".:/usr/projects/bigproj/lib:/u/iesdp/raylib:/usr/radiance/lib" Radiance will then search the directories in the order given, from left to right, until it locates the target file or runs out of places to look. eric From atif@irc.lan.nrc.ca Wed Apr 5 11:46:20 1995 Return-Path: From: "Atif, Morad" To: greg Subject: Re: Subscribe Date: Wed, 05 Apr 95 14:21:00 EDT Encoding: 21 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Status: R I will subscribe to both lists for now please. Thanks. Morad Atif Building Performance Laboratory National research Council Canada Atif@IRC.LAN.NRC.CA ---------- From: greg To: atif Subject: Re: Subscribe Date: Monday, April 03, 1995 9:30AM Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to the announcement list only, or to both lists. -Greg From M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL Thu Apr 6 02:49:32 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:33:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Maus Subject: Anisotropic Materials To: Radiance Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: R Hello there, I just read the SIGGRAPH '92 article 'Measuring and Modelling Anisotropic Reflection' by Greg Ward. At the end of this article is a table with some numbers for elliptical Gaussian fits for materials I would like to use. In this table for each material are specified: the diffuse reflection (rho_d), the specular reflection (rho_s), the RMS slope in the x direction (alpha_x) and the RMS slope in the y direction (alpha_y). Now my question is, how do I use them in Radiance? If I use the types plastic2 or metal2 I don't know where the diffuse reflection parameter should go. Should I use the BDRF type to write my own BDRF function? If neither of these is possible, does anyone know where to find this kind of accurate figures that can be used in Radiance. I'm particularly interested in aluminium, zinc, white paint, rubber and white PVC. Greetings, Maurice Bierhuizen. From greg Thu Apr 6 09:37:24 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 09:37:02 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: M.F.A.Bierhuizen@TWI.TUDelft.NL Subject: Re: Anisotropic Materials Status: R Hi Maurice, Applying the numbers in the '92 paper to Radiance is pretty straightforward, since the reflectance model used by plastic, metal, plastic2 and metal2 correspond to the isotropic and anisotropic Gaussian BRDF's presented in the paper. Let's take two examples, one for plastic and the other for metal. Since the paper does not give any spectral (i.e. color) measurements for the materials, we'll assume a uniform (grey) spectrum. For the plastic example, we'll use the isotropic "glossy grey paper". The parameters given in the article for this are rho_d=.29, rho_s=.083, alpha_x and alpha_y=.082. The Radiance primitive for this material would be: void plastic glossy_grey_paper 0 0 5 .32 .32 .32 .083 .082 The reason the diffuse color above is not (.29 .29 .29) is because this value gets multiplied by (1-.083) to arrive at the actual rho_d, so we had to divide our rho_d of .29 by (1-.083), which is (approximately) .32. For the metal example, we'll use the anisotropic "rolled aluminum", whose parameters from the article are rho_d=.1, rho_s=.21, alpha_x=.04, and alpha_y=.09. The Radiance primitive, assuming the material is brushed in the world z-direction (i.e. is rougher in the other directions), would be: void metal2 rolled_aluminum 4 0 0 1 . 0 6 .31 .31 .31 .68 .04 .09 The orientation vector given in the first line (0 0 1) is the world z-direction, which will correspond to the direction of the first roughness parameter, which is .04 in our example. It is important not to confuse the article's x and y directions with world coordinates, which may be different. If we wanted our surface orientation to change over space, we might have used a function file in place of the '.' above and given variables instead of constants for the orientation vector. Computing the diffuse and specular parameters for metal is even trickier than plastic. The formulas below apply for D and S, where D is the (uncolored) diffuse parameter and S is the specular parameter: D = rho_d + rho_s S = rho_s/(rho_d + rho_s) These formulae are needed because the specular component is multiplied by the material color for metals to get the actual rho_s. I hope this clarifies rather than muddies the waters.... -Greg From greg Mon Apr 10 09:41:55 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 08:45:00 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: and from Martin... Status: R Martin had the following response for Maurice, which he asked me to forward. (I had sent my original reply to Maurice only without noticing that he had posted this to the discussion group.) -Greg -------------------- Here is a simple example without a function file: void plastic2 red_plastic 4 1 1 1 . 0 6 .9 .2 .1 .3 .15 .22 The line "4 1 1 1 ." describes the orientation of the anisotropy (distortion of highlights) . The vector "1 1 1" will be projected onto all the surfaces that carry this material. The diffuse reflectance is given in this line: "6 .9 .2 .1 .3 .15 .22" The values .9 .2 .1 stand for RGB and .3 stands for specularity S To compute reflectance, the formula is for plastic: (.263*R + .655*G + .82*B)*(1-S) + S To compute reflectance for metal: .263*R + .655*G + .82*B The formulae are described in the Radiance digest. You can find it on the Radiance server. To give you an example with a function file, I would have to give it a try first. I think it would be a good idea if Greg would show us one of his function files. Martin Moeck Building Technologiesa Program Lawrence Berkeley Lab e-mail mmoeck@lbl.gov From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Mon Apr 10 11:35:05 1995 Return-Path: From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 10:56:53 EST To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Are there any CAD packages for... Status: R I'm looking for a CAD program to help me create general objects for use in Radiance on my UNIX system (IBM RISC6000 running AIX). Are there any and what's the best one (shareware/freeware please...). Please e-mail me your response...THANKS. Dave (iedsp@agt.gmeds.com) From Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov Wed Apr 5 20:12:08 1995 Return-Path: X-Listname: "sci.engr.lighting <==> Aux Mailing List" Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov Sender: Postmaster@garnet.nist.gov Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 21:41:10 -0500 (CDT) From: WHEELER JEFFREY G Reply-To: Lighting@garnet.nist.gov To: lighting@garnet.nist.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Subscribe From jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu Thu Apr 27 06:49:12 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 17:51:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeff Halverson Reply-To: halv0019@gold.tc.umn.edu To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: which list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 26 Apr 1995, Gregory J. Ward wrote: > Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request > > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. > > -Greg > > Sorry, I didn't realize there where multiple lists. I'd like to be on both. Thank you. Jeff Halverson From jeff@Ika_Pon_Pon.umn.edu Wed Apr 26 15:08:59 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 16:17:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeff Halverson Reply-To: halv0019@gold.tc.umn.edu To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO subscribe halv0019@gold.tc.umn.edu From ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr Tue Apr 25 03:42:24 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:42:46 +0200 From: ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 54 Status: RO Please add me to the list ramil@maclaren.u-strasbg.fr From tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Thu May 4 09:12:12 1995 Return-Path: From: Mathias Wambsganss Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:05:46 +0200 Original-Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.95) Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Original-Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.95) Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: my name to the radiance-discuss list Cc: tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Status: R Hi Greg, my name is Mathias Wambsganss from the University of Karlsruhe. In spring 1993 I visit you and Werner Osterhaus in the LBL to take a first look to radiance. Now I work a lot with it and naturaly I have some problems. To help me and my Diplom-work it would be very helpful to put my name to the radiance-discuss list. I think this could be a good forum for me to listen other user's and ask my questions. Okay I hope you can handle request. Many thanks in front and CIAO Mathias PS: I should send you greetings from Niklaus Kohler (he stands right beside me) and plaese give some greetings to Werner from Martina and me.........bye. From greg Thu May 11 13:21:20 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 11 May 95 13:07:56 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance translator for FormZ Status: R Can anyone help this guy? I don't know much of anything about FormZ or the formats it supports. Thanks. -Greg ------------ >From lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de Thu May 11 12:27:50 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 11 May 95 21:25:08 MDT From: lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de (Lars Uwe Bleher) To: GJWard@lbl.gov Subject: Form%Z-Radiance Status: RO Re: Form%Z-Radiance Dear Greg Ward, I am a student of architecture in Stuttgart/Germany, working on my final thesis. Since I model my project on Mac with Form%Z (and others) I try to figure out what format to use when I want to render a Form%Z - model with Radiance. The Form%Z tech-support suggested among other things (that sound like they would take significant effort in processing) to purchase the CAD Mover by Kandu. Form%Z exports in (a.o.) IGES, DXF, STL, 3DGF file formats. Is there a smarter and cheaper way ? I would by very happy to get your input, Thanks in advance, Lars Uwe Bleher MArch. lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de From emo@cica.cica.indiana.edu Thu May 11 13:55:48 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:37:05 -0500 From: "Eric Ost" To: lub@vince.architektur.uni-stuttgart.de, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance translator for FormZ Status: R Greetings Lars, You wrote: >Since I model my project on Mac with Form%Z (and others) >I try to figure out wh at format to use when I want to render a >Form%Z - model with Radiance. >Form%Z exports in (a.o.) IGES, DXF, STL, 3DGF file formats. If you can export your model in AutoCAD DXF format, you can try using dxfcvt which is distributed with Radiance in the subdirectory src/cv/dxfcvt. Good luck, eric From jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl Wed May 31 01:14:54 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:14:31 +0200 From: jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl (Jan Diepens) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: R subscribe radiance discussion list Jan Diepens Eindhoven University of Technology Faculty of Building and Architecture P.O. Box 513 5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands Email: jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl From ntenout@ulb.ac.be Sat Jun 3 17:21:37 1995 Return-Path: From: ntenout@ulb.ac.be (Tenoutasse Nicolas) Subject: Congratulations ! To: greg@pink.lbl.gov Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 02:21:17 +0200 (DST) Status: R Hi !! I'm an computer graphics fan ! and since some months, I've discovered Radiance which (like you surely already know) GREAT. The only thing I don't understant really is why is so less knonw ! POV is the king (with respect to popularity) after that maybe polyray/rayshade But Radiance is just unknown but GREAT.. The reason why i write you is that i read somewhere (surely on my computer screen but in what file ?) that there where a Radiance mailing list and you have to register with Greg Ward himself ! so here I am. Bye Nico From abela@astro.sp-agency.ca Thu Jun 8 13:07:35 1995 Return-Path: From: "Marc Abela" Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 00:50:28 -0700 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Mailing list Status: RO Hi. Could you add my name on the mailing list for the Radiance Digest, please? "abela@astro.sp-agency.ca" is the address. Thanks. -- ________________________________________________________________ Marc Abela Canadian Space Agency abela@astro.sp-agency.ca Canadian Astronaut Program From n6142@mail.vistec.net Fri Jun 9 02:40:41 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 11:44 MET DST To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: n6142@mail.vistec.net (Harald J. Loydl) Subject: subscribe Status: RO I subscribe for the radiance-discussion group. My E-Mail address is: Harald.Loydl@mainz.netsurf.de From meyer@arch.ethz.ch Sun Jun 11 23:38:58 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 08:40:36 +0200 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: meyer@arch.ethz.ch (Vital M. Meyer) Subject: discussion group Status: RO please subscribe me to the RADIANCE discussion groupe. thanks vm ------------------------------------------------------------- Vital Meyer (meyer@arch.ethz.ch) Institut fuer Hochbautechnik, Bauphysik (Building Technology) ETH-Hoenggerberg/HIL, CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland Tel: ++41 1 633 26 70 Telefax: ++41 1 633 10 41 ------------------------------------------------------------- From greg Wed Jun 14 00:59:50 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 00:46:40 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: question about VGA graphics Status: R Here is a question from someone about VGA graphics (bleah). >From novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk Tue Jun 13 23:29:07 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:28:02 +0200 (METDST) From: Shaul Baruch Subject: VGA graphics (fwd) To: Ward greg Status: R Hi Greg, For some reason I cant get this message through to the disccusion group. Can you help me out? Thanks Shaul. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:13:23 +0200 (METDST) From: Shaul Baruch To: Radiance-discuss Subject: VGA graphics Hi all Radiance funs, My name is Shaul Baruch, and I have been using Radiance (on & off) for the past year and a half. I have just got myself a new IBM 750 p100 (pentium 100 Mhz) which has a built in S3 864 graphic card. My problem is that the vgaimage.exe can not ! find out that the S3 864 graphic card has an 1240x1024 (256 color) devesion. Please do not get irritated , I know that this question might have been raised before, but since I could not find it in my files , I hope there is that can help me. I just would like to indicate that I had a similar problem with an 486 IBM 8590 machine which has a build-in XGA card. In order to solve that , I had to invest in a Orchid graphic card with a 1024x768 256 color card. ps. When running the checkvga.exe on the new pentium 100 , I get an answer that the best mode which is available is mode 19 ! 320x200 (256 color) or mode 18 640x480 (16 color), while the real capacity is 1280x1024 (256 color) Thanks for your help! Shaul. From tony@iac.net Wed Jun 14 16:27:58 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 19:10:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Tony To: "Gregory J. Ward" Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: question about VGA graphics Status: RO > My name is Shaul Baruch, and I have been using Radiance (on & off) for the > past year and a half. > I have just got myself a new IBM 750 p100 (pentium 100 Mhz) which has a > built in S3 864 graphic card. > My problem is that the vgaimage.exe can not ! find out that the S3 864 > graphic card has an 1240x1024 (256 color) devesion. > > Please do not get irritated , I know that this question might have been > raised before, but since I could not find it in my files , I hope there > is that can help me. > > I just would like to indicate that I had a similar problem with an 486 IBM > 8590 machine which has a build-in XGA card. > In order to solve that , I had to invest in a Orchid graphic card with a > 1024x768 256 color card. > > ps. > When running the checkvga.exe on the new pentium 100 , I get an answer > that the best mode which is available is mode 19 ! 320x200 (256 color) > or mode 18 640x480 (16 color), while the real capacity is 1280x1024 (256 > color) > > Thanks for your help! > > Shaul. > Its being a long time since I programmed graphics cards in assembler but I think this will give you some useful insight: - VESA Consortium has standardized some SVGA modes. I am not sure if your screen and color resolution belongs to any 'standard' SVGA mode, so it would be no surprise that you get the mode 19 as the highest screen/color resolution. - A lot depends one the adapater BIOS. They will probably try to make the board compatible with all common 'standard' modes but, if they want to add anything extra, it becomes something specific for the particular vendor and its BIOS implementation. - You will probably need more documentation about your adapter from your vendor. Like, what to do to switch the board to such resolution as you would like to use and that is advertised as supported by the board. - Then you have to change Radiance VGA program source so that the required mode setup is executed on initialization. This is usually a couple of writes to certain IO ports so it boild down to knowing the address of the port and the value of byte (s) to write. Good luck, Tony From pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadne-t.gr Wed Jun 21 08:23:02 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:20:10 +0300 From: pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadne-t.gr (Pavlos Kassomenos) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO from : aris tsangrassoulis to : Greg Ward Pleae subscribe me to the umoderated discussion group for RADIANCE the e mail adress is : pavlos@etesian.meteolab.ariadnet.gr From @post.demon.co.uk:dave@acedia.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 2 09:39:10 1995 Return-Path: <@post.demon.co.uk:dave@acedia.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 20:17:35 GMT From: David S Baker Reply-To: dave@acedia.demon.co.uk To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Discussion Group Subscribe X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS Lines: 12 Status: R Greg, It was good to meet you at the recent BEPAC conference in England. I was very interested in what you had to say about the radiance package and your insight into the subject was very enlightening. Thanks. Please add me to the Discussion Group list. -- David S Baker Environmental Services Department Roger Preston & Partners From jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr Sun Jul 9 23:29:02 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 08:13:40 +0200 From: Jean-Louis Maltret-GAMSAU To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Color model Status: RO Dear Radiance users, We are working now on the color model in Radiance. The aim is to use the AC1C2 model, which is in principle superior than the standard RGB model, following the Meyer's results. At the same time we implement complex refractive index in "dielectric" material to take in account physical properties of metals. These features have been already implemented in other ray-tracers, with encouraging results (DBW by Patrick Callet ) and we hope that, with quality of Radiance, the result would be better. If somebody has tried this modification, or something resembling, we should be interested by exchange of experience or information. Thanks. ======================================================== Jean-Louis MALTRET GAMSAU Tel: (33)91.82.71.64 Ecole d'Architecture Fax: (33)91.82.71.71 184 Avenue de Luminy jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr F-13288 MARSEILLE Cedex 09 ======================================================== From meinrad@marina.scn.de Wed Jul 12 00:08:01 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 09:07:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: meinrad@scn.de To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscription request Status: R Please subscribe me to both lists, the moderated announcement and digest mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group. Thanks and greetings from Meinrad Scheibleger Traunreut Germany From nflasne@nintendo.fr Thu Jul 13 09:22:51 1995 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:27:14 +0200 From: nflasne@nintendo.fr To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov, nflasne@nintendo.fr Subject: Re: Newsgroup Status: R Yes, I'm interested in suscribing to both list. here is where you reach me : Didier.Lasne@nintendo.fr Thank you. From mgix@spimageworks.com Thu Jul 13 10:33:14 1995 Return-Path: From: mgix@spimageworks.com (Emmanuel Mogenet) Subject: subscribe Emmanuel Mogenet To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: mgix@wti.com Return-Receipt-To: mgix@wti.com Status: RO subscribe Emmanuel Mogenet mgix@wti.com From gerold@ise.fhg.de Wed Jul 19 06:46:17 1995 Return-Path: From: gerold@ise.fhg.de Subject: forward ratracer To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:24:07 +0100 (MESZ) Status: RO Dear radiance users! I guess we are not the only ones who want to calculate BRTF values for daylighting elements that are available on the market RADIANCE is not the right tool for this job, and we are looking for a forward raytracer. Therefore the question, does anybody know about a forward raytracing software that is able to handle 3-D geometries, reflection, transmission, total reflection and diffraction? It would be an added plus if it were available on the network? I scanned through the digest and haven't found any useful information besides the fact that nobody seems to know about software like this on the network. Does anybody have any ideas? Thanks for your help! -- Gerold Furler MAIL: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems Oltmannsstr. 5, 79100 Freiburg, Germany PHONE: +49 (761) 4588 308 FAX: +49 (761) 4588 100 EMAIL: gerold@ise.fhg.de From Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de Wed Jul 19 07:16:58 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 19:24:36+050 From: Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de (Dr. Chandan Haldar) To: gerold@ise.fhg.de Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: forward ratracer Status: RO You might like to look at rayshade (princeton.edu:/pub/Graphics) ? - Chandan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Chandan Haldar -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siemens Information Systems Limited Real Time Systems Division 29 Infantry Road, Bangalore 560 001, India. Phone: +91 80 551 1012 Fax: +91 80 551 1214 Internet: Chandan.Haldar@blr.sni.de -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV Wed Jul 19 08:03:59 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:43:54 +0700 From: borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV (Christoph Borel) To: gerold@ise.fhg.de, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: forward ratracer Cc: borel@sensor2.LANL.GOV Status: RO Dear Gerold : We are doing some BRDF calculations using a combined radiosity and raytracing approach. The best code however that I have seen (and gotten a beta release) is by Yves Govaerts from JRC in Italy. He has taken the syntax from rayshade and written a Monte Carlo raytracer which is probably what you want. Here is his e-mail : yves.govaerts@cen.jrc.it Here is the title and abstract of a talk he gave recently at LANL : Title: Modeling the scattering of light in three-dimensional canopies Author: Yves Govaerts European Commission, Joint Research Center Institute for Remote Sensing Applications Abstract: Extracting quantitative information from remote sensing data requires analytical tools such as canopy reflectance models to interpret radiative measurements in terms of the quantities of interest. A new model (Raytran) of radiation transfer in complex three-dimensional media, taking advantage of the latest ray tracing computer graphics techniques, has been developped to study the transfer of solar radiation in terrestrial environments over a variety of spatial scales. This model is used as a "virtual laboratory", to generate reflectances and absorption profiles of complex targets, where all geometrical and physical quantities can be controlled explicitly. The accuracy of this model has been established by comparison with other Monte Carlo models and with laboratory measurements. The purpose of the seminar is to illustrate potential applications of this model at different spatial scales. I hope that helps you Chris *==========================================================================* * Christoph C. Borel, Nonproliferation and International Security Division * * Astrophysics and Radiation Measurements Group, NIS-2, MS C323, * * Los Alamos National Laboratory * * Los Alamos, NM 87545, USA, (505)-667-8972 FAX (505)-667-3815 * * E-mail : borel@sensor2.lanl.gov or ccb@lanl.gov or cborel@lanl.gov * *==========================================================================* From gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk Tue Jul 25 05:15:26 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:11:59 GMT Reply-To: gregg1@mdx.ac.uk From: gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: building radiance X-Vms-To: SMTP%"greg@hobbes.lbl.gov" Status: R Greg, I suppose I'm not on the discussion list because I haven't been able to use Radiance yet because I haven't built it for VMS ... So, yes please add my name to the Radiance discussion list. Thanks, Gregg Moore Middlesex University From greg Tue Jul 25 11:51:00 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 11:34:13 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance under VMS Status: R Here is a question from a VMS user who is trying to build Radiance under that operating system. Can anyone offer any suggestions? ------ >From gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk Fri Jul 21 04:36:34 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:34:55 GMT Reply-To: gregg1@mdx.ac.uk From: gregg1@paad1.mdx.ac.uk To: GJWard@lbl.gov Subject: building radiance X-Vms-To: SMTP%"GJWard@lbl.gov" Status: RO Greg, Do you know of anyone who has built Radiance for VMS? I've started to translate the csh script files into VMS command files, but this is not a trivial task ... Thanks, Gregg Moore Middlesex University, England From vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi Wed Jul 26 00:13:38 1995 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:43:07 +0300 (EET DST) From: Olli Vinberg To: "Gregory J. Ward" Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance under VMS Status: R On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gregory J. Ward wrote: > I've started to translate the csh script files into VMS command > files, but this is not a trivial task ... If the csh-scripts are the hardest part, try getting tcsh for that vms-machine. It's supposed to compile on a vms and then you might be able to use those scripts without major modifications. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Olli Vinberg \ Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name. vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi \ Thy programs run, thy syscalls done, http://www.helsinki.fi/~vinberg \ in kernel as it is in user! From burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com Sat Jul 29 12:15:12 1995 Return-Path: From: "Tim Burr" Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:43:57 -0700 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Glow and Illum Light Sources Status: RO I'm trying to understand the need for the illum and glow light sources. Can't these same effects be created by simply defining the correct primary light sources and the appropriate material characteristics on all the geometry? Are the glow and illum sources used as just quick and dirty methods for getting approximately the same effects? Tim -- Timothy Burr | "Essence is that about a thing that makes Coryphaeus Software, Inc. | that thing what it is." burr@cory.coryphaeus.com | - existentialist food for thought - From greg Sat Jul 29 13:19:05 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 13:03:36 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Glow and Illum Light Sources Status: R Technically, there is no real need for the illum and glow types in Radiance. You can do everything with the light type alone, but not as efficiently. Also, there are some sources for which the light type simply won't work properly, but the glow type will. Perhaps it would help if I were to summarize the difference between the various light types: light - basic type, causes surfaces to be entered into the light source list and be tested for shadow during the direct calculation. spotlight - same as light except with limit on radiated cone, which improves efficiency by providing an extra test to preclude unnecessary shadow tests. glow - light with limit on distance for which it will behave as a source for shadow testing. If this limit is zero, or the surface is the "source" type (infinitely distant), the emission will still be included in the indirect calculation. If the limit is negative, the contribution will be ignored. illum - pseudo light material, used for surfaces that are not the actual radiators but are instead diffusing relayers or portholes through which significant radiation passes. Surfaces thus defined will participate as sources in the direct calculation, but will revert to their original form when viewed directly or indirectly. This is a very important optimization for reducing calculation time and improving accuracy, without which most daylighted interiors would never work in Radiance. The direct calculation is one of the most complicated and sophisticated parts of Radiance (especially the virtual light source calculation, which I won't get into here). It makes using the software significantly more challenging, but without it, the results would not look nearly as good. -Greg From stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu Mon Jul 31 06:25:26 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:02:48 -0400 To: Olli Vinberg From: stuart.lewis@arch.gatech.edu (Stuart Lewis) Subject: Re: Radiance under VMS Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: R >> I've started to translate the csh script files into VMS command >> files, but this is not a trivial task ... > >If the csh-scripts are the hardest part, try getting tcsh for that >vms-machine. It's supposed to compile on a vms and then you might >be able to use those scripts without major modifications. > I've used tcsh on LINUX successfully for about half a year without any problems with Radiance. As I recall from the tcsh docs, it should be fully compatible with csh scripts. Sorry about the lag in my reply. Stuart Lewis, Georgia Tech From frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu Sun Jul 30 18:32:20 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 21:12:28 -0400 From: Frank Kim To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: DXF and OpenInventor and Radiance Status: RO Hi, I am beginning work on converting DXF files to Radiance files. First, is there already a convertor to do this? Second, I have a converter for DXF to OpenInventor. Once I get the OpenInventor file I plan on using an OpenInventor program to "fly around" the scene geometry and by clicking on objects, set material properties, and also allow interactive placement and movement of lights. Is there already a program that does or has anyone started working on such a thing? Third, after editing the scene geometry using an OpenInventor program I would create a new OpenInventor scene geometry file. Is there a program for converting OpenInventor files to Radiance files? Thanks for any help, Frank Kim From chas@dnai.com Mon Jul 31 12:56:30 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:18:09 -0800 To: Frank Kim From: chas@hobbes.lbl.gov (Charles Ehrlich) Subject: Re: DXF and OpenInventor and Radiance Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO First, there is a translator included in the Radiance distribution that will convert some entity types in DXF files to Radiance. I have not used it and can not vouch for its completeness or seaworthiness. I prefer to import my DXF files into AutoCAD and use a program called Radout to export the data. Radout used to be available through arch.mit.edu, but I have not heard from its author, Philip Thompson, for quite some time. Another utility on the hobbes ftp server is torad, an autolisp utility which does a good job of exporting AutoCAD stuff, but is VERY slow. I have ported RADOUT to DOS and Windows if you'd like to obtain them from me. (chas@innernet.com) Second, there are a few individuals including Mike Donn at the University of Wellington in New Zeland (mdonn@vuw.ac.nc) who have been working on porting ddrad, (again, an AutoCAD utility) to DOS/Windows. They have also added a few routines for placing materials, as far as I know. Other than that, see below. Third, see below. -Chas chas@hobbes.lbl.gov ===== My best referral follows: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 11:20:26 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) Message-Id: <9503091920.AA24606@hobbes.lbl.gov> To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance mail from Stephen Benson Status: RO Here are some questions from Stephen Benson, who is one of many people who has trouble with my silly mail server not accepting connections for the radiance-discuss alias. (Those who are lucky enough to have their mail accepted are also rewarded by many bounced mails from bad addresses. Ah, the joys of modern life!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm investigating ways of bringing models from other popular RTs into Radiance (.nff looks like a good bet -- but I don't know much about it). There's a suite of tools for RTrace/LightR on asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] that look interesting): >Here goes a short description of current converters from >CAD/molecular/chemistry packages to the SCN format. > >The package programs are related as below (those marked with * have been >modified) > > irit2scn > IRIT ----------------| > | NFF (nffclean, nffp2pp) > sol2scn | | > ACAD11/12 ---------------| | nff2sff > | | > mol2scn v scn2sff* v rtrace* > ALCHEMY -----------> SCN -----------> SFF ----------> PIC or PPM > ^ cpp ^ | > pdb2scn | | picmix > PDB -----------------| | picblend > | | ppmmix > chem2scn | SPD generators ppmblend > CHEMICAL --------------| balls > | rings > 3ds2scn | tetra > 3D STUDIO --------------| teapot > | ... > iv2scn | > IRIS Inventor -----------| > | > obj2scn | > Wavefront -------------| > | > | > LightR lightr* | > (radiosity) -------------| > > >Docs/sff*.ps.gz | SFF spec in Postscript (GZIP) >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >Docs/scn*.ps.gz | SCN spec in Postscript (GZIP) >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >nff.tar.Z | the Eric Haines scene generators (NFF scenes) > | Version 3.3 (= SPDup33b.tar.Z) >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >nffutils.tar.Z | some programs for converting to NFF or to filter > | NFF scenes with some problems... >----------------+---------------------------------------------------------- >sff.tar.Z | a converter from NFF to SFF (the input format of > | the ray-tracer) (= nff2sff.tar.Z) >-------------- Does anyone have any experience along these lines? Is it worth pursuing? And any comments on the RTrace/LightR combination (which I'm yet to try). -- : stephen benson : : : : : : : : stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net From jon@esru.strath.ac.uk Fri Aug 4 16:06:35 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 09:33:19 BST From: jon@esru.strath.ac.uk (jon) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, frankkim@antoniades.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Moving on from DXF... Status: R In response to Frank Kim's question and the general topic of exchanging information between CAD and Radiance: We have an indirect converter from DXF to Radiance by way of the esp-r thermal simulation program which is able to pass a substantially attributed problem to radiance. Esp-r and Radiance share a very similar product model so conversion between these applications is straightforward. Esp provides the attribution facilities in terms of the topology of the problem (what is inside, outside), names for entities and their composition (surface properties, opaque/transparent/optical properties) which simulation requires and which DXF (pathetic old thing that it is) struggles with. Passing polygons is in many cases the simple part of the composition of a problem for simulation applications - it is the attribution which we get stuck writing code to support - just the sort of thing that CAD packages have not addressed very well. Perhaps a syntax other than DXF would be something to consider. The problem of passing information has not been easy to solve even though there have been several groups working on this. For example, the European Union is just wrapping up the COMBINE programme (Computer Models for the Building Industry in Europe) which used STEP files for exchange of data between simulation applications and CAD. Such formats might be a way ahead, certainly the linking of semantics and data reduces the ambiguity which is problematic as infomation is being passed around from tool to tool. Greg Wards's proposal for a descriptive format was perhaps a result of the frustrations with currently available syntax - now if we could just get the CAD firms to deal with the depth of information tools like radiance require... -Jon Hand Energy Systems Research Unit University of Strathclyde Glasgow SCOTLAND From moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu Tue Aug 8 10:29:16 1995 Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 12:28:15 -0500 From: Martin Moeck Apparently-To: gjward@lbl.gov To: gjward@lbl.gov Status: R Hi Greg, coulfd you please include me in the radiance discussion group under mmoeck@ukans.edu? Take care, Martin From tristow@hydra Mon Aug 14 15:09:51 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:07:40 +0600 From: tristow@hydra (Troy Ristow) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Discussion Group Status: R Please subscribe me to the discussion group. Thank you, Troy Ristow -- tristow@zgs.com From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Tue Aug 15 06:36:38 1995 From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 08:32:15 EST To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Subject: Trad needs to be updates! Status: RO I just downloaded Tcl7.4 and Tk4.0. I'm on an IBM RISC6000 running AIX3.2 and X11R5. I just typed trad (from Radiance version 2.5), and it complained about tk_listboxSingleSelect I read in the Tk README that this function no longer exists...several other changes to Tcl/Tk have been made since trad was written. Dave From cloister@hhhh.org Tue Aug 15 07:29:04 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 07:27:32 -0700 (PDT) From: cloister bell To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Trad needs to be updates! Status: RO > I just downloaded Tcl7.4 and Tk4.0. I'm on an IBM RISC6000 running AIX3.2 and > X11R5. I just typed trad (from Radiance version 2.5), and it complained about > > tk_listboxSingleSelect > > I read in the Tk README that this function no longer exists...several other changes > to Tcl/Tk have been made since trad was written. this is a tk3.6 to tk4.0 difference. trad needs to be updated to tk4.0. check out the tk4.0 porting guide, which you ought to have gotten with tk4.0; it has a very nice list of what's different and what to do about it. if you manage to get it ported quick, i'm sure greg will be pleased not to have to do it himself... From iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Tue Aug 15 08:43:57 1995 From: iedsp@agt.gmeds.com (David S. Pesetsky (317)-230-6088 AGT/8880) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:39:32 EST To: cloister@hhhh.org Subject: Re: Trad needs to be updates! Cc: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Status: RO > > I just downloaded Tcl7.4 and Tk4.0. I'm on an IBM RISC6000 running AIX3.2 and > > X11R5. I just typed trad (from Radiance version 2.5), and it complained about > > > > tk_listboxSingleSelect > > > > I read in the Tk README that this function no longer exists...several other changes > > to Tcl/Tk have been made since trad was written. > > this is a tk3.6 to tk4.0 difference. trad needs to be updated to tk4.0. > check out the tk4.0 porting guide, which you ought to have gotten with > tk4.0; it has a very nice list of what's different and what to do about > it. if you manage to get it ported quick, i'm sure greg will be pleased > not to have to do it himself... > I don't do porting...just wanted Greg to be aware of the differences. Dave From greg Tue Aug 15 11:56:02 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 11:55:55 PDT From: greg (Greg Ward) To: cloister@hhhh.org, iedsp@agt.gmeds.com Subject: Re: Trad needs to be updates! Cc: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Status: R I am now officially taking volunteers for whoever wants to go through 2000+ lines of Tcl/Tk code to update it for version 3.6. I've taken a quick crack at it, and already come across at least 4 incompatibilities not mentioned among the 45 problems alluded to in the 3.6 -> 4.0 porting guide. This looks to me like a hopeless situation, and my tendency is just to tell everyone to compile Tk3.6 if they want to use trad. -Greg From jgronval@snakemail.hut.fi Wed Aug 16 00:56:41 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:46:05 +0300 (EET DST) From: "+(Pluus)" To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Subject: Need help with writing IESNA95 luminaires Status: R Hello! In Finland for some reason nobody wants to support American lighting standards. Nonetheless I would want to write my own IES files using existing data. Problem is, I don't know what the fields between "TILT" and the line where the angles start mean.(eg. 2 2900 1.0 1 1 0.85 4.04 .292 1.0 1.0 63.7 for the APEX 55) Moreover what units are used to describe the intensities, candelas? I've contacted IESNA in New York and asked them to send me the Handbook but it seems its going to take ages before it gets here. Can these specifications be found on the net somewhere? I would very much appreciate any information about this stuff. John From gm@hl-technik.de Thu Aug 17 11:06:55 1995 From: "Georg Mischler" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:19:00 +065534 (MESZ) Subject: Re: Need help with writing IESNA95 luminaires X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 4.04k - 1154 Status: RO John wrote: > In Finland for some reason nobody wants to support American lighting > standards. Nonetheless I would want to write my own IES files Strange people there in finland, aren't they? ;) What kind of standard *is* there supported in scandinavia? In the german speaking part of euorpe it is EULUMDAT, and every manufacturer (well, allmost) is able to deliver the data in that format. If the same is true for finland, *and* if you are modelling with autocad, then I could provide you a small lisp program doing the connversion from EULUMDAT to radiance data. As a general info to all: You probably allready know that Philip Thompson at MIT has ported my original autocad to radiance translator torad from autolisp to ads-C, naming the result radout. You might also have heard about the user interface ddrad, that Veronika Summerauer at ETH has written for torad (and radiance). I am currently pondering to adapt this interface to radout, so you will get the speed of a compiled translation unit, and the flexibility and functional power of a lisp driven user interface. The features of ddrad allready include: - fully integrated graphical user interface for exporting data to radiance. - material editor. - rendering parameters control (generating rif file). - running radiance from within autocad (interactive preview). - material library support. This is currently limited to unix users and adapted specially to the needs of the CAAD lab at ETH. A final version on top of radout might feature: - more speed. - material preview. - better control of rendering parameters (override of rad output). - support of several sky models (gensky, gendaylit, etc). - conversion of luminaires data (IES, EULUMDAT, etc). - creation of instances from blocks. - smoothed curved surfaces. - maybe even networking capabilities (run radiance on remote unix host from your acad platform, sockets library and X-server required). Don't expect to to see these things the next day though. This is a long term project, which most contributers probably will do aside their other work, adding features when they come in handy or when they are needed for some specific project. It will depend very much on the contributions from the radiance user community how soon there will be a more or less final result. I am currently discussing this with Chas Ehrlich (who has sponsored the dos port of radout) and Veronika. I also tried to contact Philip Thompson and Mike Donn (who made some enhancements to radout), but haven't got responce from them yet - maybe I should wait till the summer break (or winter break in nz) is over. If there is anybody out there, who has either more ideas (good) or some spare time and knoweledge to share (better), let me know. Georg Mischler u7x31ad@sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de ------------------------------------------------- From pd.bourke@auckland.ac.nz Thu Aug 17 12:22:24 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 07:13:16 +1200 (NZT) From: Paul David Bourke Subject: quicktime VR To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Status: RO Has anyone else produced any QuickTime-VR interactive environments using Radiance rendering? I have put together some scripts which along with the Apple QT-VR authoring tools can create such 3D environments. I'm working at the moment on creating multinode environments. If anyone is interested or even have a model they would like converted into a QT-VR system you can contact me. The scripts and procedure will eventually be on my WEB site. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Bourke Computer Manager Address Work School of Architecture, Property, Planning The University of Auckland Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand Email pd.bourke@auckland.ac.nz Phone +64 -9 373 7599 x7367 Fax: +64 -9 373 7410 FTP ftphost.auckland.ac.nz in pub/architec WWW http://www.auckland.ac.nz/arch/pdbourke/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From m.carr@auckland.ac.nz Sun Aug 20 18:55:38 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:49:58 +1200 (NZT) From: Matiu Carr Subject: IES decsriptions To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov (radiance discussion) Status: RO Hi On the off chance it has been answered in private email, can anyone out there provide information (or pointers to information) regarding the IES luminaire descriptions? Thanks. Mat ---------------------------------------------- Matiu Carr m.carr@auckland.ac.nz University of Auckland http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/People/Mat/ ---------------------------------------------- From @kate.ibmpcug.co.uk:stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Sun Aug 20 02:25:02 1995 Reply-To: Stephen Benson To: gm@hl-technik.de Cc: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 08:27:05 Subject: Re: Need help with writing IESNA95 luminaires From: Stephen Benson Status: RO >You probably allready know that Philip Thompson at MIT has ported my >original autocad to radiance translator torad from autolisp to ads-C, >naming the result radout. You might also have heard about the user >interface ddrad, that Veronika Summerauer at ETH has written for >torad (and radiance). >I am currently pondering to adapt this interface to radout, so you >will get the speed of a compiled translation unit, and the >flexibility >and functional power of a lisp driven user interface. > >The features of ddrad allready include: >- fully integrated graphical user interface for exporting data to > radiance. >- material editor. >- rendering parameters control (generating rif file). >- running radiance from within autocad (interactive preview). >- material library support. > >This is currently limited to unix users and adapted specially >to the needs of the CAAD lab at ETH. > Sounds interesting; is it available on a site somewhere? -- : stephen benson : : : : : : : : stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net From greg Thu Aug 24 09:26:01 1995 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 09:25:57 PDT From: greg (Greg Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: PLEASE STOP! Status: RO Please stop sending unsubscribe messages to radiance-discuss!!! This gets forwarded to EVERYONE on the mailing list, not just to the maintainer (me). As a result, you end up making everyone want to unsubscribe because of the noise, and I can hardly blame them. I've disabled the list for a day or two until this dies down. If you have unsubscribe requests to make, send them to radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov, not radiance-discuss! You should also say which list you wish to subscribe or unsubscribe, as there are two, a moderated announcement and digest list, which is somewhat immune from this sort of nonsense, and an unmoderated digest list, which includes the occassional bit of noise from careless users. -Greg From tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Thu Aug 24 08:20:04 1995 From: Mathias Wambsganss Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 16:44:46 +0200 Original-Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.95) Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line Original-Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.95) Pp-Warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Subject: gensky Cc: tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Status: RO Hi I have a question to sky models produced with gensky. If I use the option -c for an CIE overcast sky and calculate the illuminace, the value outside of my building is nearly 8800 lx. A check of this value with other programs (LuMagic, LumenMicro or with a handish calculation like DIN 5034 (German norm book)) brings me some trouble. For the same day at the same place are the values between 11500lx and 12000lx (also for an overcast sky). If I use the option -u (uniform sky) to produce a sky.rad file and calculate the illuminace outside the building, I got a value nearly the same like the other programs. i use the PC-Version of radiance. So my question is: Has anyone an idea what happens and is this maybe a proplem of the PC-Version?? Thanks a lot in front! Mathias Wambsganss Universitaet Karlsruhe Germany Lehrbereich Technischer Ausbau Englerstr. 7 76128 Karlsruhe FON 0721 6083769 FAX 0721 6086092 Email tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de From greg Thu Aug 24 09:06:32 1995 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 09:06:31 PDT From: greg (Greg Ward) To: tias@ifib.uni-karlsruhe.de Subject: Re: gensky Status: RO Hi Mathias, The numbers to use for average zenith luminance are never agreed upon. I'm surprised that your other calculations are in such close agreement. If you want a reliable absolute value for ANY sky condition, you must specify the zenith radiance either directly with the -b option or indirectly via the -B option of gensky. This is not a fault of the PC version, just a difference in the default quantity used by various programs. -Greg P.S. There is usually data available for the mean irradiance or illuminance (use the conversion factor 179 lumens/watt to go between the two) in weather almanacs and the like. From cbrown@thor.lostnet.org Thu Aug 24 10:47:28 1995 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:47:32 GMT From: "Christopher E. Brown" To: radiance-request@theo.lbl.gov Subject: UNSCRIBE Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from radiance-discuss From rcl@scs.leeds.ac.uk Fri Aug 25 04:52:23 1995 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 12:25:07 +0100 (BST) From: R C Love Subject: Leaking light To: radiance-discuss@theo.lbl.gov Status: RO I recently turned off all the light sources in what used to be an external view of a daylit building (I wanted to model it floodlit at night). When I ran rview (or rpict) it correctly identified that there were no light sources but the resulting image shows the building to be almost self illuminating. Where surfaces face each other the light is quite significant. Thinking that this was my mistake (a rogue light source in the scene files) I used the following simple scene and rad file... ############################################### # test.rif scene= test.scene OCTREE= test.oct PICTURE= test EXPOSURE= 0.0358 VARIABILITY= M QUALITY= M DETAIL= M INDIRECT= 1 view= -vtv -vp 5 -10 0.5 -vd 0 1 0 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 29.0286 -vv 29.0286 -vo 0 -va 0 -vs 0 -vl 0 ############################################### ############################################### # Test.rad void plastic stone 0 0 5 0.45 0.4 0.3 0.0 0.2 !genbox stone step_1 5.6 1.2 0.15 | xform -t 2.2 0.0 0.0 !genbox stone step_2 5.6 1.2 0.15 | xform -t 2.2 0.3 0.15 !genbox stone step_3 5.6 1.2 0.15 | xform -t 2.2 0.6 0.30 !genbox stone step_4 5.6 1.2 0.15 | xform -t 2.2 0.9 0.45 ############################################### I've used the above on both Radiance V2.5 and V2.4 on a Linux box and an SGI Challenge machine (R8000's under Irix6) and the stone steps are clearly visible. Can anybody tell me why I can see the steps when there is no light in the environment? Many thanks Rob Love School of Computer Studies Universtity of Leeds Leeds, UK From greg Fri Aug 25 09:41:01 1995 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 09:41:00 PDT From: greg (Greg Ward) To: rcl@scs.leeds.ac.uk Subject: Re: Leaking light Status: RO Hi Rob, This didn't get sent to radiance-discuss because the list is still disabled, but that's OK because I can answer your question pretty easily. The problem is that rad sets the ambient value based on the EXPOSURE setting in the .rif file, and your setting of 0.0358 results in a -av setting of 14 14 14. Any non-zero setting in a scene without sky or light sources will make the surfaces appear to glow. You need to change your exposure setting to something more reasonable for a nighttime scene in order to get the right results. Hope this clears things up. -Greg From Come007@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu Fri Sep 1 11:08:27 1995 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 11:08:25 PDT To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: Come007@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu (Me) Subject: Radiance Discussion List Status: RO Please subscribe me to the list Thanks From slyhorse@crl.com Mon Sep 25 16:40:06 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:06:19 -0700 (PDT) From: slyhorse To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: subscribe to which list? Status: RO Subscribe to moderated announcement and digest mailing list See my web page From greg Tue Sep 26 09:32:38 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:11:36 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: PostScript question Status: RO Here is a question about the output of ra_ps, asked by Jan Diepens. Since I wrote this program, it's obviously my fault, but I don't know enough about standard PostScript comments to correct it without help, so please offer some suggestions or references if you have them. Thanks. -Greg ---------------------- >From Jan Diepens : I'm trying to print the radiance pictures on a Hp 4M + postscript printer using the print option of TRAD. The result is 2 nice grayscale pictures and a lot of pages with the error message: "!! This job is recovered from page 2 !! (Note: There may be a few pages duplicated)". Using TRAD and sending the print job to a QMS 810 postscript printer does not give any problem. If I display the postscript file generated by TRAD (ra_ps) with SUN's pageview I get the error message: "this file doesn't use the Adobe PostScript Structuring Comments correctly". Is this a known problem and has it already been solved? if not will somebody help me to solve it?, I am not a postscript expert and can use all help. I am using Radiance release 2.5 compiled and running on a SUN SPARCstation 10 with the OS "Solaris 2.4." From kdoug@ozemail.com.au Fri Sep 29 01:08:54 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:08:06 +1000 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: kdoug@ozemail.com.au Subject: subscription Status: RO This is my request for subscription to the Radiance discussion mailing list From greg Mon Oct 2 15:01:16 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 15:00:32 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: kdoug@ozemail.com.au Subject: Re: Optical Light Film Cc: lbeltran Status: RO Hi Ken, I'm sorry to take so long to get back to you. I forwarded your e-mail to a woman in our group (Liliana Beltran) who has had some experience with these types of material (including the one you mentioned in particular). She also has some experience using Radiance, and I thought she might have modeled this before. Just speaking with her now, it seems that she hasn't, and cited the general lack of information from the manufacturer (3M) regarding the material's properties. I have added your e-mail address to both the Radiance announcement/digest list and the discussion list. If you would like to post your question to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, it should go through to the list. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. -Greg From novebaru@inet.uni-c.dk Fri Oct 20 04:39:06 1995 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:13:17 +0200 (METDST) From: Shaul Baruch Subject: 3D-Studio To: Radiance-discuss Status: RO Hallo all Radiance funs, I am trying to convert 3D drawings created by 3D-Studio to Radiance format. I would like to hear from people that have tried it before. Is there a new/old good way to do such conversion. I am working with a DOS version of Radiance, and I do not seem to have the Torad conversion program. (How good does it work? and what other possibilities are there?) Best regards Shaul Baruch From chas@innernet.com Wed Oct 25 00:07:51 1995 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:43:10 -0700 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: chas@innernet.com (Charles Ehrlich) Subject: Re: 3D-Studio Status: RO >>Shaul Baruch wrote: >>I am trying to convert 3D drawings created by 3D-Studio to Radiance >>format. >>I would like to hear from people that have tried it before. >>Is there a new/old good way to do such conversion. >> >>I am working with a DOS version of Radiance, and I do not seem to have >>the Torad conversion program. (How good does it work? and what other >>possibilities are there?) A DOS/Windows version of the torad program (called radout) is available from me for an investment recovery fee of $50.00. It is based on a Unix version of the radout program for Unix AutoCAD. My programmer enhanced the export facilities such that it creates Radiance polygons from closed 3D PLINES. It was specifically written to handle some of the strange data one gets from programs like 3D Studio. Sorry. It does not yet handle light sources, cameras or any of the other fancy objects. The version I offer runs under DOS or Windows AutoCAD R12. If there is enough interest, I will bring it up to date with R13 and pay for the addition of more functionality. Point your WWW browser at: http://www.innernet.com/radiance/home.html for more information. -Chas +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Charles Ehrlich | Radiance Consulting & Training for | | Space & Light | Lighting & Daylighting Analysis | | radiance@innernet.com | Energy Efficiency and Visual Comfort | | 842 Folsom St. #197 | Available: AutoCAD to Radiance xlator | | San Francisco, CA 94107 USA | For more information check out URL: | | 415 905-4438 24hr messages | http://innernet.com/radiance/home.html | +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ From greg Mon Oct 30 09:30:28 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 09:12:47 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: e-mail from Erwin Zierler for Radiance discussion group Status: RO [I am forwarding this for Erwin, since his mailer doesn't like my mailer.] > > Hallo all Radiance funs, Hi Shaul! > > I am trying to convert 3D drawings created by 3D-Studio to Radiance > format. > I would like to hear from people that have tried it before. > Is there a new/old good way to do such conversion. As far as I know 3DS has an option to write out DXF (not sure though) >From then on you have two ways: 1. use the existing dxf2rad (should be on hobbes) 2. import it into Autocad (if you have it) and use the torad program or radout (more below) If you can get on a machine with Autocad 13 you can import the 3ds files directly. Then again use the torad utility. > I am working with a DOS version of Radiance, and I do not seem to have > the Torad conversion program. (How good does it work? and what other > possibilities are there?) Ohh, the dos version!? I heard about it but didn't know people are really working with it. Well, as long as it reads the same geometry files like the Radiance (Unix) distribution there should be no problem. Regarding torad: it's a AutoLisp program and is only useful if you have AutoCAD. It takes a AutoCAD database and writes out the Radiance geometry, materials (all the same), a basic sunlight and groundglow and you can also choose from a set of views (named views in ACAD) Check the hobbes server (or mirror site in Swizerland) in /pub/translators (or similar), there you should find this program (if not I can mail it to you). Radout is another translator which works also inside AutoCAD and is basically a C (ADS in this case) port of the torad program. I have only used it once but the handling and functionality is quite the same (hope I remember right). Personally I prefer Gerorg Mischler's torad since I can read the code and modify it according to my needs. > > > Best regards > > Shaul Baruch > Hope this helps a bit.... Erwin >>> Erwin Zierler erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at University of Innsbruck <<< >>> WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ Austria <<< From greg Mon Nov 6 10:43:55 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 10:43:54 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: greg Subject: Re: Radiance on an Amiga Status: RO Does anyone have any experience with the following system configuration, that they might be able to give this fellow some advice? ------------ >From matt@jackson.apana.org.au Thu Nov 2 23:06:04 1995 Return-Path: From: Matt Jackson Subject: Radience Problems To: GJWard@lbl.gov Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 03:49:25 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: jackson@posgate.apana.org.au Status: R Hi Greg, I have just installed Radience 2.4 from the SIGGRAPH '94 CD and have a few problems. I am using an Amiga 3000 running NetBSD1.0 and managed to build everything with gcc2.7.3 but, when I render anything (includeing the examples and tutorial) all I get is a black picture with white objects. Any help will greatly appreciated. Matt. From G.McKennan@mmu.ac.uk Mon Nov 20 06:38:55 1995 Return-Path: From: GEOFFREY MCKENNAN Organization: Manchester Metropolitan University To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 14:38:39 GMT Subject: radiance e-mail X-Confirm-Reading-To: "GEOFFREY MCKENNAN" X-Pmrqc: 1 Return-Receipt-To: "GEOFFREY MCKENNAN" Priority: normal Status: RO to whom it may concern, I should like to receive radiance e-mail. I have been recommended to request "subscribe unmoderated". Could you please send to my e-mail address. Thanks for your help. Dr G T McKennan From pluti@axil.sit.fi Mon Nov 27 04:14:53 1995 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 13:45:02 +0200 (EET) From: John Gronvall To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Groupingn & Smoothing Pgons? Status: RO Hello Everyone Thank you very much for helping me out with my IES-problem. Now I have another one, At the moment I'm working with a friend on an Autolisp routine that would allow conversion of a 2D base-plane drawing of a building into a Radiance file. The height for the walls exist only as extended data. I'm using MGF to describe the main geometry of the scene. For the kinkier parts I'm working directly with the .rad file. The problems occur when trying to describe a cylindrical shaped wall - I would prefer not to use 'Gensurf' for the wall, instead I'd rather use the symmetry of the floor to construct an "extruded" piece of wall. In this way the wall would be tessalated into rectangles -> no smoothing! Q: Is there an easy way of "grouping" the polygons into one object so that the surface would look smooth. The only way I can think of is to somehowe use as a material modifier a bump map and try to come up with a way of interpolating the normals of the polygons..???? Any help would be appricated Your Sincerely from the country where everybody currently is walking with loads of ice in their beard John Gronvall From gm@hl-technik.de Mon Nov 27 07:08:23 1995 Return-Path: From: "Georg Mischler" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 15:35:00 +100 (MESZ) Subject: Re: Groupingn & Smoothing Polygons? X-Gateway: iGate, (WP Office) vers 4.04m - 1082 Status: RO John Gronvall wrote: > The problems occur when trying to describe a cylindrical shaped wall - > I would prefer not to use 'Gensurf' for the wall, instead I'd rather use > the symmetry of the floor to construct an "extruded" piece of wall. In this > way the wall would be tessalated into rectangles -> no smoothing! > Q: Is there an easy way of "grouping" the polygons into one object so that > the surface would look smooth. > The only way I can think of is to somehowe use as a material modifier a > bump map and try to come up with a way of interpolating the normals of > the polygons..???? Hi John, What exactly is the problem with gensurf? Its output is exactly the texfuncs you need, so why reinventing the wheel? If you stay with walls (ie. extrusion to Z direction) then the formula is relatively simple. Let X0, Y0, Z0 be the (lower) center of your arc, alpha the opening angle (start to end), a1 the starting angle relative to +x and H the extrusion height. Then you get (please test before using!): !gensurf some_material curve 'cos((PI*(PI/alpha)*s)+a1)+X0' \ 'sin((PI*(PI/alpha)*s)+a1)+Y0' \ '(t*H)+Z0' \ 16 1 -s You can tweak the number of segments (here 16) depending on the opening angle to get more accurate upper and lower edges. I intend to include this functionality into the torad/radout/ddrad suite as soon as the ddrad portion is ready for beta testing. Therfore I'd be *very* happy myself if anyone could come up with a general solution to this problem (curves roatated in space) without the need of using xform and seperate files for every single arc ... Btw: I hope that this test release of ddrad will be ready early next year. The basic functionality is allready working together with my modified copy of radout, but it still needs some more work to become usefull to someone who has never seen it before. Sorry John, for abusing your request again for this kind of advertisement ... you just seem to ask the right questions ;) hope that helps (and thanks as well for any further ideas) -Georg Georg Mischler \ / HL-Technik AG, Lichtplanung T: +49-89/72406-315 Daylighting && - o - Wolfratshauser Strasse 56 F: +49-89/72406-309 && Simulations / \ D - 81379 Muenchen, Germany E: gm@hl-technik.de From dbarnard@centcon.com Sun Dec 3 14:22:32 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 14:21:29 -0800 From: Doug Barnard To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: (no subject) X-Url: http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/digests_html/v2n7.html Status: RO subscribe radiance-discuss From media@centauro.polito.it Thu Dec 7 04:07:35 1995 Return-Path: From: caneparo Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 13:01:23 MET Cc: media@centauro.polito.it Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30] Status: RO Could you please subscribe me to the Radiance discussion group? Thanks! Luca Caneparo Politecnico di Torino Italy From geigel@akbar.psc.edu Sun Dec 10 13:14:58 1995 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:14:48 -0500 From: geigel@akbar.psc.edu (Joe Geigel) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Reply-To: geigel@psc.edu Status: RO Hello... COuld you please subscribe me to the radiance mailing list... Thanks, -- joe geigel geigel@psc.edu From M.Curatella@agora.stm.it Sun Dec 24 18:32:27 1995 Return-Path: From: M.Curatella@agora.stm.it To: greg@pink.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe Me Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 3:24:3 GMT Status: RO Greetings Mr. Ward, I would like to subscribe to the mailing list dedicated to the RADIANCE package, wich impressed me very much! I'm using the Amiga porting of Radiance and I've found some problems with the emulation of the unix-style shell, needed for the correct execution of the rendering scripts. Thanks in advance. Massimo Curatella ### From amadeus@bga.com Tue Jan 9 01:03:13 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 03:03:03 -0600 (CST) From: Thomas Marsh To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscription Status: RO Dr. Ward, I assume this is not a mojordomo account. I would like to subscribe to both the moderated and unmoderated mailing lists. If for some reason this email has reached the wrong location please do notify me. I am going in accordance with the instructions listed in Radiance Digest v2n7. I am a general raytracing enthusiast and use Radiance in conjunction with the rest of my hobbies. I am extremely impressed with your software. Perhaps someday I will have some work to display for your Radiance users! Thank you very much, Thomas Marsh /------------------------------------=----------------------------------------\ | Thomas Marsh, amadeus@bga.com | Life would be so much easier if we | | http://www.bga.com/~amadeus | could just look at the source code. | \------------------------------------=----------------------------------------/ From amadeus@bga.com Wed Jan 10 12:12:39 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:43:04 -0600 (CST) From: Thomas Marsh To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: [Q] Porous Surfaces Status: RO Hello, I am very new to the Radiance system, so please excuse my ignorance. I have attempted to educate myself thus far with the materal at http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance but I have not been able to understand many portions. I will explain what I am trying to do. I would like to create a pumice-like surface. (Pumice is a type of lava rock with lots of holes in it.) The obvious solution is to define my object and then create a random distribution of small antimatter spheres with varying radii. -But that is a very ugly hack. I am trying to find a way to do this so that I can apply it to any object. I would assume this would be easier to do in Radiance than almost any other renderer, so perhaps that is why I cannot figure out how to do it. Thanks for any suggestions! Thomas /------------------------------------=----------------------------------------\ | Thomas Marsh, amadeus@bga.com | Life would be so much easier if we | | http://www.bga.com/~amadeus | could just look at the source code. | \------------------------------------=----------------------------------------/ From carlalex@elessar.engin.umich.edu Mon Jan 15 17:43:24 1996 Return-Path: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:43:10 -0500 From: "Carl A. Adams" Status: RO subscribe radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From psjana@svf.stuba.sk Fri Jan 19 05:01:38 1996 Return-Path: From: Milan Janak Subject: Request to subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:28:02 +0100 (MEZ) Status: RO Dear Mr. Gregory Ward, After some help from Jan Hensen currently in Korea I would like to ask you to subscribe myself to the both Radiance discussion lists. For some time I am back in my home university in Bratislava, Slovakia. So please you could unsubscribe my ESRU address milan@esru.strath.ac.uk or clcv64@strath.ac.uk. I am currently working on the time variable illuminance predictions with Radiance. Currently we do not have UNIX machines here in Slovakia so we are using Radiance DOS version from the ADELINE package. I would like to use gendaylit program which is not included in ADELINE. Could you let me know where I could find source code for the gendaylit. With best regards, Milan Janak e-mail: psjana@svf.stuba.sk From visilux@ucl.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 12:31:18 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 20:28:51 +0000 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: visilux@ucl.ac.uk (Mun Yew Chan) Subject: Subcribe me to Radiance Digest Status: RO /?????????????????????????????????????????????/ Mun Yew Chan visilux@ucl.ac.uk /?????????????????????????????????????????????/ From matt@jackson.apana.org.au Sun Jan 28 02:25:32 1996 Return-Path: From: Matt Jackson Subject: Subscribe to mailing lists To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:23:37 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: jackson@mail.act.apana.org.au Status: RO Hi, I am not sure if I am subscribed to the mailing lists or not. My name is: Matt jackson Email Address: jackson@mail.act.apana.org.au Or: jackson@posgate.apana.org.au Thanks. Matt. --- Matt Jackson "You can talk about the cutting edge jackson@mail.act.apana.org.au of technology all you like but Canberra,Australia someone has to hold the knife..." From bpaolo@augustea.it Sun Jan 28 17:53:15 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 03:28:35 -0800 From: Paolo Bernardelli Organization: Poliedra To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe mailing list Status: RO Please Greg Subscribe me to radiance Mailing List!!! send mail to bpaolo@augustea.it thank Paolo Bernardelli From erik@duticg.twi.tudelft.nl Tue Jan 30 05:51:27 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:15:00 +0100 (MET) From: Erik Reinhard Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Please subscribe erik@duticg.twi.tudelft.nl (Erik Reinhard) to the radiance mailing list. Thanks, Erik From guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr Fri Feb 2 09:44:26 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:51:28 +0100 From: Sebastien Guilbaud To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Mailing list Status: RO Thank you for your prompt answer. I would like to subscribe to both mailing lists, please. I had a small (huge in fact) problem recompiling Radiance on our Alpha,here, but it compiled right out of the box on our old DecStations ....... I will try it out tonight on my Linux machine : the night will be very looooonng . thanks in advance Sebastien. From greg Mon Feb 5 09:26:49 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 09:01:34 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance on a Cray? Status: RO Can anyone help this gentleman? Please don't use the reply command, rather e-mail to his address directly. If you would like to be removed from the Radiance mailing list, send a request to unsubscribe from the discussion group to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov -Greg -------------------------- >From media@centauro.polito.it Sun Feb 4 04:43:05 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 13:35:30 +0100 To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov From: Luca CANEPARO Subject: Radiance on the Cray's. Cc: media@polclu.polito.it Status: R Hi Greg, Could you please put me in touch with someone who installed Radiance on the Cray's computers? Best regards, Luca Caneparo Politecnico di Torino Italy e-mail media@centauro.polito.it From guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr Tue Feb 6 02:34:58 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:58:42 +0100 From: Sebastien Guilbaud To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance compilation on Linux Status: RO I recently compiled Radiance on my Linux system (gcc 2.7.2, libc 5.2.18) and it worked almost perfectly : i had to remove the Xmshr library from the makefile : i don't have this library on my machine. Anyone knows the purpose of this library ? Except this,Radiance runs rather well (my processor is a poor DX4-100). Seb. From geigel@akbar.psc.edu Tue Feb 6 07:40:07 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:00:28 -0500 From: geigel@akbar.psc.edu (Joe Geigel) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, globillum@imag.fr Subject: Looking for accurate illumination/BRDFs Reply-To: geigel@psc.edu Status: RO Hello... I am conducting an experiment, in the spirit of the studies with the Cornell box, where I will be comparing a computer rendered scene (rendered with RADIANCE) with an equivalent scene in the real world. As such, I will need to find luminarires and materials in the real world whose physical data is accurately recorded and generally available. I was wondering if anyone can recommend any particular luminaires whose illumination data is available (and considered accurate) and/or materials whose BRDF data is available (and also accurate) and where I might obtain such data. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, -- joe geigel pittsburgh supercomputing center geigel@psc.edu From bpaolo@augustea.it Tue Feb 6 16:18:46 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 01:24:32 -0800 From: Paolo Bernardelli Organization: Poliedra To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance compilation on Linux Status: RO Dear Grag Sebastien Guilbaud wrote: > > I recently compiled Radiance on my Linux system (gcc 2.7.2, libc 5.2.18) > and it worked almost perfectly : i had to remove the Xmshr library from > the makefile : i don't have this library on my machine. > Anyone knows the purpose of this library ? > > Except this,Radiance runs rather well (my processor is a poor DX4-100). > > Seb. I have had the same problems ... And I try to substitude with a generic -lX11 but when I try to use rpict or rview that use X11 output device there was a bad suprise.... I try to compile the 2.6a or b Release of radiance. With the 2.5 (Official Release ) all is ok but the new feature of 2.6 realease are really interesting. Dear Grag try to light myself....... and my compiler... Thank and Bye Paolo Bernardelli From greg Tue Feb 6 16:23:53 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 16:23:24 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: bpaolo@jupiter.augustea.it Subject: Re: Radiance compilation on Linux Cc: greg, guilbaud@ensinfo.univ-nantes.fr Status: RO OK -- I removed the -lXmshr line from makeall for Linux, but I don't kow (know) what it does or doesn't do. -Greg P.S. You will get some bounced mail from your posting to radiance-discuss. Please ignore it! From bpaolo@augustea.it Tue Feb 6 16:38:40 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 02:12:43 -0800 From: Paolo Bernardelli Organization: Poliedra To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance compilation on Linux Status: RO Gregory J. Ward wrote: > > OK -- I removed the -lXmshr line from makeall for Linux, but I don't kow > (know) what it does or doesn't do. > > -Greg > > P.S. You will get some bounced mail from your posting to radiance-discuss. > Please ignore it! I don't rememeber very well... because I try to compile two week ago... Tomorrow I will be more exact. But what You can imagine that all executable that try to to use X11 library wasn't campile. When I correct with "-lX11" the -lXmshr link, the rpict and rview executable were built. But when I try to make a render there wasn't any answer or beginning of trace. Tomorrow I will send another more exact mail. Thank Greg by Paolo Bernardelli. From nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Mon Feb 12 10:28:16 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 19:27:52 +0100 (MET) From: Gustav Taxen To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request Status: RO > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. Hi, Greg! I thought this was an automatic mailing list server, so I sent a "help" command to check what my options were. If the announcement messages are posted to the unmoderated group, I'd like to subscribe to that (in digest form, if possible), please. BTW, thanks for a great program! Sincerely, Gustav )\._.,--....,'``. /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. --- `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ------------------------------------------------ | Gustav Taxin (nv91-gta@nada.kth.se) Listen! -John Cage | Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden | http://www.nada.kth.se/~nv91-gta ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (cat by Felix Lee, flee@cse.psu.edu) From jlm@gamsau.archi.fr Tue Feb 13 09:06:24 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 17:32:01 +0100 From: Jean-Louis Maltret-GAMSAU To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe Status: RO Please could you change my address on this list, which was : jlm@corbu.cnrs-mrs.fr (or jlm@gamsau.cnrs-mrs.fr , this is equivalent and I don't know under what address I have subscribed) to the new address : jlm@gamsau.archi.fr Thanks and best regards. J-L.Maltret - Gamsau - School of Architecture - Marseille-Luminy France. From greg Tue Feb 13 10:12:11 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:46:31 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Forgive and forget Status: RO Please ignore that last message, which was posted accidentally by a user to the entire Radiance discussion group, when he meant to send it to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Please address all requests for changes in your discussion group and digest/announcement list subscriptions to the above address, rather than to the discussion group itself. Also, be careful when you reply to a discussion group posting, so that you don't inadvertantly send mail to the entire group when you mean for it to go to the individual originator or to me, the list manager. Thanks for your patience and cooperation. -Greg Ward From g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Thu Feb 15 23:59:56 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 20:59:32 +1300 (NDT) From: Greg Elisara Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Please add me to the Radiance Discussion group. Thanks, * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Greg Elisara g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Dept of Architecture, University of Auckland, New Zealand. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Sat Feb 17 02:23:44 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:57:07 +1300 (NDT) From: Greg Elisara Subject: Radiance and Linux/XFree86 at 16bpp To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Hi all, I've been running Radiance on a Linux box for some time but have only ever been able to get it to work with the X server running at 8bpp. Since I've decided to go the ELF way I decided to try and fix all the littel problems that were bothering me, particularly this Radiance one. I'm not in working distance of the Linux box in question so I can't give you all the details but the gist is: -RedHat Distribution v2.1 -Kernel 1.2.13 -XFree86 3.1.2 -P5/100 CPU -Diamond Stealth 64 2M DRAM I'm assuming that the X parts of Radiance (rview, ximage etc) can work at higher colour depths than 8bpp. XFree does. Anyway, if anyone out there can help it would be very much appreciated. PS: just some superfluous info for those considerin the change to ELF - if you want/need to compile the Radiance binaries make sure that the Makefile is explicit about where it can find the X libs. Running the script straight out of the box didn't work for me. -L/usr/X11/lib needed to be explicitly added to the gcc line for the X11 bits to be made. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Greg Elisara g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Dept of Architecture, University of Auckland, New Zealand. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk Sun Feb 18 14:06:44 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 22:38:23 +0100 (GMT+0100) From: Henrik Wann Jensen To: Greg Elisara Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance and Linux/XFree86 at 16bpp Status: RO On Sun, 18 Feb 1996, Greg Elisara wrote: > -RedHat Distribution v2.1 > -Kernel 1.2.13 > -XFree86 3.1.2 > -P5/100 CPU > -Diamond Stealth 64 2M DRAM > > I'm assuming that the X parts of Radiance (rview, ximage etc) can work at > higher colour depths than 8bpp. XFree does. > > Anyway, if anyone out there can help it would be very much appreciated. I am having almost the same configuration (also Diamond Stealth) and it is true that Radiace doesn't recognize the 16bpp visual, but you can use the Diamond Card with 32bpp and Radiance runs perfectly well with this visual. > PS: just some superfluous info for those considerin the change to ELF - > if you want/need to compile the Radiance binaries make sure that the > Makefile is explicit about where it can find the X libs. Running the > script straight out of the box didn't work for me. -L/usr/X11/lib needed > to be explicitly added to the gcc line for the X11 bits to be made. I use Slackware 3.0 ELF and Radiance compiled without any problems at all. - Henrik +-------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ + Henrik Wann Jensen + e-mail: igkhwj@unidhp.uni-c.dk + + Graphical Communication + www: http://www.gk.dtu.dk/home/hwj/ + + Technical University of Denmark + phone: +45 45 25 16 64 + + Building 116, DK-2800 + fax: +45 45 93 83 17 + +-------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ From audile@onramp.net Thu Mar 14 09:48:46 1996 Return-Path: Subject: subscribe Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 11:48:29 -0600 From: Robert Kay To: Status: RO I have now been using Radiance under MachTen on the Power Macintosh for several months. Between rendering, I am starting a port of the core batch-rendering code to run as a tool under the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop (MPW) shell using Motorola's optimizing compiler. Initial tests look promising, but there are many details to be worked out... Please subscribe me to both (all) Radiance groups. robert kay From victor@fa.utl.pt Mon Mar 25 12:04:04 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 22:01:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Victor Ferreira To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribtion to the Discussion Group Status: RO Hello, I'm a new user of Radiance... actually i'm still instlling it... or trying to... I'm an portuguese architect, and i teach at the Faculdade de Arquitectura da Universidade Tecnica de Lisboa (School of Architecture of the Technical University of Lisbon). I=B4ve been reading the digest of the mailing list... and i tought it woulb interesting to receive it and participate. I will be trying to introduce more coleagues to Radiance, and start a group to work with it, here in the school... Thank you for your atention, =09=09=09 =09=09=09=09=09Victor Ferreira _________________________________________________________________ victor@cifa.fa.utl.pt From mhamstra@wolfenet.com Wed Mar 27 17:37:39 1996 Return-Path: Sender: mhamstra@wolfe.net Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:37:54 -0800 From: Mark Hamstra Organization: M. Elliott Hamstra Design & Consulting To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: which list? Status: RO Gregory J. Ward wrote: > > Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request > > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. > > -Greg Both, please. Sorry, Greg, I was expecting Majordomo. Mark From ra.deangelis@agora.stm.it Wed Mar 27 23:55:59 1996 Return-Path: Sender: root@agora.stm.it Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 15:24:50 +0000 From: Raffaele De Angelis To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: (no subject) Status: RO subscribe Raffaele De Angelis I wish to subscribe to this list thanks From tim@tarn.m.ISAR.de Sat Mar 30 03:17:47 1996 Return-Path: From: "tim" Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 12:17:59 +0000 To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Subject: Re: subscribe Status: RO On Mar 29, 1:06pm, Gregory J. Ward wrote: > Subject: Re: subscribe > Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request > > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. > > -Greg >-- End of excerpt from Gregory J. Ward I would like to subscribe to both. Could you also give me the addresses for submitting to each mailing list? Thanks, Tim Moran From jib@Jbrange Thu Apr 4 05:45:03 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:15:42 +0200 From: Jean.Brange@utopia.fnet.fr Errors-To: jib@worldnet.fr To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: radiance & microstation Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v03.19.07. Status: RO Hello, I am looking for a microstation to radiance translator, for an urgent picture from a microstation database. Does any one out there has something like that? Thank's, Jean. From nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Thu Apr 11 01:53:05 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:19:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Gustav Taxen To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: DXF translators and Radiance Status: RO I'm looking for a free CAD program that I can use together with Radiance to design rooms and furniture (not professionally, just for fun). I have a demo of bCAD and MNM (Midnight Modeller) for Linux - is there a DXF->Radiance translator that doesn't require AutoLisp? On another issue - can Radiance be used for "pure" radiosity calculations? I'm interested in generating a result that is independent of the viewpoint (i.e. intensity values for different wavelengths at every polygon vertice or something similar). If not, is there a package that does this? Thank you, Gustav Taxin )\._.,--....,'``. /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. --- `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' ------------------------------------------------ | Gustav Taxin (nv91-gta@nada.kth.se) Listen! -John Cage | Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden | http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~nv91-gta ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (cat by Felix Lee, flee@cse.psu.edu) From greg Thu Apr 11 09:13:54 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 09:13:22 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance Status: RO Hi Gustav, I don't know of any working-order DXF translator for Radiance, unfortunately. I have a pathway working from 3D-studio, and someone tells me that BRL-CAD has a Radiance export option. What other formats can you produce besides DXF? You can use Radiance to generate spectral radiance values at vertices. So long as none of your surfaces have any specular component, this will give identical results to a radiosity calculation. -Greg From hwj@lin1.gk.dtu.dk Thu Apr 11 09:40:25 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:04:30 +0100 (GMT+0100) From: Henrik Wann Jensen To: Gustav Taxen Cc: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance Status: RO On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Gustav Taxen wrote: > I'm looking for a free CAD program that I can use together with Radiance > to design rooms and furniture (not professionally, just for fun). I have a > demo of bCAD and MNM (Midnight Modeller) for Linux - is there a > DXF->Radiance translator that doesn't require AutoLisp? I believe there is a DXF>-Radiance translator in the Radiance package. > On another issue - can Radiance be used for "pure" radiosity > calculations? I'm interested in generating a result that is independent > of the viewpoint (i.e. intensity values for different wavelengths at every > polygon vertice or something similar). If not, is there a package that > does this? Radiance does not use the Radiosity algorithm. It computes values at discrete points that are similar to the values computed by Radiosity. These values can be saved in a file and reused if you want to make several images of the same scene from different view-points. There are "pure" radiosity packages on the net. Check ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/graphics/packages/radiosity/ I believe this directory contains a few. - Henrik +------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ + Henrik Wann Jensen + e-mail: hwj@gk.dtu.dk + + Graphical Communication + www: http://www.gk.dtu.dk/home/hwj/ + + Technical University of Denmark + phone: +45 45 25 16 64 + + Building 116, DK-2800 + fax: +45 45 93 83 17 + +------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ From nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Fri Apr 12 04:58:24 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:58:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Gustav Taxen To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance Status: RO Hi, Greg! > I don't know of any working-order DXF translator for Radiance, > unfortunately. I have a pathway working from 3D-studio, and someone > tells me that BRL-CAD has a Radiance export option. What other formats > can you produce besides DXF? Francois Forest mentioned SCED, a program for constraint based scenery design that looks very interesting indeed. The distribution is free with=20 source code and it produces output directly for Radiance, Rayshade, POV, RenderMan programs and VRML (don't know about DXF, though). The other=20 free modellers I've found on the Internet mostly produces DXF and POV-ray= =20 output. > You can use Radiance to generate spectral radiance values at vertices. > So long as none of your surfaces have any specular component, this will > give identical results to a radiosity calculation. That's what I was hoping for. I assume I'll have to use rtrace in some=20 way. Is there an "easy" way to generate the rays rtrace wants as input or= =20 do I have to write a special program to do this? Sincerely, Gustav Tax=E9n From greg Fri Apr 12 15:38:53 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 15:38:34 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: nv91-gta@nada.kth.se Subject: Re: DXF translators and Radiance Status: RO > That's what I was hoping for. I assume I'll have to use rtrace in some=20 > way. Is there an "easy" way to generate the rays rtrace wants as input or= > do I have to write a special program to do this? There is no "easy" way. You have to write a program if you want vertex values, since Radiance does not track these or treat them specially in any way. -G From lighting@idt-isep.ipp.pt Wed Apr 17 09:31:03 1996 Return-Path: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 17:28:24 +0100 From: lighting@idt-isep.ipp.pt X-Mts: smtp Status: RO Subscribe radiance-discuss Alexandre Valle de Carvalho From selee2@smtppc.kict.re.kr Thu Apr 18 21:37:14 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 13:38:06 +0900 From: Seung-Eon Lee Organization: KICT To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe X-Url: http://www.unlv.edu/library/ARCH/sect2.html#2.0 Status: RO subscribe RADIANCE-DISCUSS Seung-Eon Lee From shadap@teil.soft.net Tue Apr 23 23:35:39 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:03:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Sunil S. Hadap" Subject: I would like to become the member! To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Dear Madam/sir, I am representing TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD, we are also into architectural walkthroughs. I would like to parcipate in radiance discussions. To start with I have a question. If I am using IRIS Performer for visualization, how can I use radiance solution into Perforemr. Thanks o------------------------------o / COMPUTER GRAPHICS HAPPENS HERE \ o-------------------o-----------------o----------------o----------------------o | Sunil Sharadchandra Hadap | | | TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD. | | | Whitefield Road, Mahadevpura Post, | 2363, 2nd Cross, HAL 3rd, | | Hoody, Bangalore - 560 048 - INDIA | Konena Agrahara, Vimanpura Post, | | Tel : 91-80-8452016 / 8452017 | Bangalore-17 | | E_mail: shadap@teil.soft.net | | | Time : 9.30 AM to 6.00 PM (INDIA) | | o-------------------------------------o---------------------------------------o From dboyer@onlink.net Wed Apr 24 13:08:24 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:01:13 -0400 From: dboyer@onlink.net To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO subscribe RADIANCE-DISCUSS Chad Boyer From chipr@tomquartz.niestu.com Tue May 7 09:03:59 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:03:57 -0700 (MST) From: Chip Richards To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: subscribe Status: RO On Tue, 7 May 1996, Gregory J. Ward wrote: Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to the announcement list only, or to both lists. -Greg Oh, sorry, your README in the "discuss" archive directory didn't mention more than one list, nor did the web page. Heck, after the lecture to newbies you have in your README, I'd have expected a bit more, umm, coordination! In any case, I hunger for information, so subscribe me to both lists, please. -- Chip From mattheos@"[192.168.2.1]" Sun May 12 12:09:19 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Papavasiliou Mattheos To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:07:25 +0000 Subject: subscribe to the Radiance discussion group Reply-To: mattheos@entasis.hellas.net X-Confirm-Reading-To: mattheos@entasis.hellas.net X-Pmrqc: 1 Return-Receipt-To: mattheos@entasis.hellas.net Priority: normal Status: RO subscribe to the Radiance discussion group From rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu Tue May 14 11:40:58 1996 Return-Path: From: Robert Taylor Subject: Black Objects? To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 14 May 96 14:03:10 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO To: Radiance Users I've been trying to render a black object without much success. I can create gray objects of various degrees of lightness, but not really what you would call a black object with highlights. Does anyone have a good recipe? Am I missing something fundamental about Radiance? Thanks for your help, -- Bob Taylor, JHU / Applied Physics Laboratory E-Mail: rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu From greg Tue May 14 12:40:01 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 14 May 96 12:01:39 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, rjt@ramjet.jhuapl.edu Subject: Re: Black Objects? Status: RO I recommend that you use plastic with a small diffuse component, i.e.: void plastic black_material 0 0 5 .02 .02 .02 .05 0 The fifth parameter (roughness) may be adjusted to your liking. -Greg From shadap@teil.soft.net Wed May 15 01:05:26 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:02:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Sunil S. Hadap" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Dear friends, Now a days I am trying to use radiance for lighting calculation for Architectural Walkthrougs. I am using SGI Onyx with tools like Performer, Vega, Multigen. I wonder how I can use radiance lighting calculations in Performer sa there is no file format which both radiance and performer support unlike say Lightscape's lighting tool. THANKS o------------------------------o / COMPUTER GRAPHICS HAPPENS HERE \ o-------------------o-----------------o----------------o----------------------o | Sunil Sharadchandra Hadap | | | TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD. | | | Whitefield Road, Mahadevpura Post, | 2363, 2nd Cross, HAL 3rd, | | Hoody, Bangalore - 560 048 - INDIA | Konena Agrahara, Vimanpura Post, | | Tel : 91-80-8452016 / 8452017 | Bangalore-17 | | E_mail: shadap@teil.soft.net | | | Time : 9.30 AM to 6.00 PM (INDIA) | | o-------------------------------------o---------------------------------------o From darkwing@bsdd.Regensburg.com Wed May 15 18:08:53 1996 Return-Path: From: Christoph Hoegl Subject: Subscription to Discussion-Group To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:08:53 +0200 (MET DST) Status: RO If not already done, i would like join the Rad.-Discussion-Group Christoph Hoegl / darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com / Siedlungsstr. 18 93128 Regenstauf Germany Fax:+49 940270611 Key fingerprint = C2 1F 84 52 93 20 BE C4 10 71 57 CC 2E 9E 59 EC From jbi@saturn.dmu.ac.uk Tue May 21 10:35:48 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 17:48:11 +0100 From: jbi@dmu.ac.uk (Joven Ignacio) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: opaque or transluscent glass Status: RO Hi Does anyone out there have "opaque or transluscent" glass material definitions on hand? I'd really appreciate some suggestions. If you've done some experiments on materials that are based on real models, could you please offer some suggestions on how to do this? Thanks in advance, Joven email: jbi@dmu.ac.uk From kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au Tue May 21 22:11:18 1996 Return-Path: From: Ken Douglas To: "'Gregory J. Ward'" Subject: RE: subscribe Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 15:08:10 +-1000 Return-Receipt-To: Status: RO Greg, Yes, this is my old address. I haven't had a chance to log in to my old = service and unsubscribe. Could you please remove that address from both = groups and replace with my new address. Thanks, Ken ---------- From: Gregory J. Ward[SMTP:greg@hobbes.lbl.gov] Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 1996 2:43 To: kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au Subject: Re: subscribe Hi Ken, I have a "kdoug@ozemail.com.au" already subscribed to both the = discussion and digest groups for Radiance. Is this you, or an old address for you? Which list(s) do you want to (re)subscribe to? -Greg From mstock@engin.umich.edu Mon May 27 10:59:57 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:00:02 -0400 From: Mark Stock To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO subscribe radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au Tue May 28 09:11:45 1996 Return-Path: From: Ken Douglas To: "'Radiance Discussion Group'" Subject: Rpict parameters and daylighting Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 01:30:49 +-1000 Return-Receipt-To: Status: RO I am hoping someone can help me in understanding the various ambient value related parameters for Rpict. I am doing an analysis of the lighting levels obtained from daylight within an office building atrium. (The client needs to know if the space can maintain large palm trees). As such I am not so much interested in obtaining a realistic image as obtaining accurate predictions of the illuminance levels (lux) within the space. What I would like to know is ; does the parameters such as ambient value (-av), ambient bounces (-ab) and ambient divisions (-ad), etc, affect the actual values calculated by Radiance or do they merely modify the image for display purposes ? I have picked up a few clues this evening from the digests for working out the optimum values for ambient values. To date I have been "cheating" by running the RAD program interactively and interrogating the resulting values of these parameters. The problem is when using the Trace command on the images I get different values of illuminance for different parameters. As a matter of interest, I am using the DOS port of Radiance distributed with the Adeline (v1) package. Also if I may, there seems to be very little information in the DOS package regarding the Dayfact script. Given I am very interested in calculating workplane illuminances, I wonder if anyone could provide me with a working example or tips on using the Dayfact module. Thanks, Ken Douglas From greg Tue May 28 11:47:26 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 28 May 96 11:47:07 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: kdouglas@barrywebb.com.au Subject: Re: Rpict parameters and daylighting Status: RO Hi Ken, The -a* parameters do indeed affect the computed illuminance values. Using rad to set these parameters is a fine way to go about it. In fact, the OPTFILE variable is set up for just this purpose. Assign it a file name, then use rtrace @filename to access the assigned options. You can also try writing to Joven Ignacio of Demontfort university, since he has done a bit of experimentation with atria. -Greg From jaf@MIT.EDU Wed Jun 5 11:10:21 1996 Return-Path: To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:10:28 EDT From: Jeffrey Feldgoise Status: RO Hi. Could you please add me to the folowing email discussion list? radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Thanks! Jeff Feldgoise _____________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------- | | Jeff Feldgoise jaf@mit.edu | MIT Dept. of Architecture (617) 258-9339 (lab) | Visual Simulation Group (617) 738-1444 (home) || From jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl Wed Jun 19 01:42:51 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:50:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jan Diepens To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: RAL colors Status: RO Hi radiance user, Include with this message the radiance definition for a number of RAL paint codes frequently used in Europe. O ____ O (_/\_) o =() .. +------------o00----------------------------+ | Jan Diepens | | Eindhoven University of Technologie | | P.O. Box 513 | | 5600 MB Eindhoven, The Netherlands | | Telephone -31 40 2 47 35 14 | | Telefax -31 40 2 43 85 95 | | E-mail: jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl | +----------------------------o00------------+ -------include message------ # RAL Farbregister: RAL 841-GL # # RAL1000 : grunbeige # reflectance factor: 0.480 void plastic RAL1000 0 0 5 0.523 0.488 0.280 0 0 # # RAL1001 : beige # reflectance factor: 0.454 void plastic RAL1001 0 0 5 0.534 0.445 0.268 0 0 # # RAL1002 : sandgelb # reflectance factor: 0.434 void plastic RAL1002 0 0 5 0.552 0.416 0.195 0 0 # # RAL1003 : signalgelb # reflectance factor: 0.469 void plastic RAL1003 0 0 5 0.776 0.401 0.030 0 0 # # RAL1004 : goldgelb # reflectance factor: 0.415 void plastic RAL1004 0 0 5 0.661 0.364 0.033 0 0 # # RAL1005 : honiggelb # reflectance factor: 0.312 void plastic RAL1005 0 0 5 0.493 0.276 0.016 0 0 # # RAL1006 : maisgelb # reflectance factor: 0.380 void plastic RAL1006 0 0 5 0.649 0.317 0.024 0 0 # # RAL1007 : chromgelb # reflectance factor: 0.371 void plastic RAL1007 0 0 5 0.666 0.298 0.013 0 0 # # RAL1011 : braunbeige # reflectance factor: 0.247 void plastic RAL1011 0 0 5 0.352 0.224 0.096 0 0 # # RAL1012 : zitronengelb # reflectance factor: 0.450 void plastic RAL1012 0 0 5 0.623 0.428 0.071 0 0 # # RAL1013 : perlweiss # reflectance factor: 0.703 void plastic RAL1013 0 0 5 0.664 0.726 0.639 0 0 # # RAL1014 : elfenbein # reflectance factor: 0.566 void plastic RAL1014 0 0 5 0.622 0.568 0.369 0 0 # # RAL1015 : hellelfenbein # reflectance factor: 0.670 void plastic RAL1015 0 0 5 0.683 0.681 0.536 0 0 # # RAL1016 : schwefelgelb # reflectance factor: 0.670 void plastic RAL1016 0 0 5 0.774 0.696 0.129 0 0 # # RAL1017 : safrangelb # reflectance factor: 0.478 void plastic RAL1017 0 0 5 0.757 0.412 0.114 0 0 # # RAL1018 : zinkgelb # reflectance factor: 0.624 void plastic RAL1018 0 0 5 0.845 0.600 0.107 0 0 # # RAL1019 : graubeige # reflectance factor: 0.289 void plastic RAL1019 0 0 5 0.320 0.286 0.212 0 0 # # RAL1020 : olivgelb # reflectance factor: 0.277 void plastic RAL1020 0 0 5 0.316 0.277 0.148 0 0 # # RAL1021 : kadmiumgelb # reflectance factor: 0.516 void plastic RAL1021 0 0 5 0.782 0.471 0.023 0 0 # # RAL1023 : verkehrsgelb # reflectance factor: 0.534 void plastic RAL1023 0 0 5 0.804 0.489 0.033 0 0 # # RAL1024 : okergelb # reflectance factor: 0.302 void plastic RAL1024 0 0 5 0.414 0.282 0.099 0 0 # # RAL1027 : currygelb # reflectance factor: 0.230 void plastic RAL1027 0 0 5 0.328 0.216 0.027 0 0 # # RAL1028 : melongelb # reflectance factor: 0.485 void plastic RAL1028 0 0 5 0.885 0.383 0.015 0 0 # # RAL1032 : ginstergelb # reflectance factor: 0.411 void plastic RAL1032 0 0 5 0.628 0.370 0.041 0 0 # # RAL1033 : dahliengelb # reflectance factor: 0.446 void plastic RAL1033 0 0 5 0.774 0.365 0.045 0 0 # # RAL1034 : pastellgelb # reflectance factor: 0.429 void plastic RAL1034 0 0 5 0.692 0.362 0.115 0 0 # # RAL2000 : gelborange # reflectance factor: 0.285 void plastic RAL2000 0 0 5 0.582 0.200 0.015 0 0 # # RAL2001 : rotorange # reflectance factor: 0.176 void plastic RAL2001 0 0 5 0.408 0.103 0.020 0 0 # # RAL2002 : blutorange # reflectance factor: 0.157 void plastic RAL2002 0 0 5 0.410 0.074 0.013 0 0 # # RAL2003 : pastellorange # reflectance factor: 0.349 void plastic RAL2003 0 0 5 0.723 0.237 0.049 0 0 # # RAL2004 : reinorange # reflectance factor: 0.259 void plastic RAL2004 0 0 5 0.619 0.145 0.015 0 0 # # RAL2008 : hellrotorange # reflectance factor: 0.316 void plastic RAL2008 0 0 5 0.684 0.204 0.030 0 0 # # RAL2009 : verkehrsorange # reflectance factor: 0.246 void plastic RAL2009 0 0 5 0.582 0.140 0.015 0 0 # # RAL2010 : signalorange # reflectance factor: 0.222 void plastic RAL2010 0 0 5 0.498 0.137 0.020 0 0 # # RAL2011 : tieforange # reflectance factor: 0.319 void plastic RAL2011 0 0 5 0.656 0.220 0.033 0 0 # # RAL2012 : lachsorange # reflectance factor: 0.252 void plastic RAL2012 0 0 5 0.527 0.164 0.075 0 0 # # RAL3000 : feuerrot # reflectance factor: 0.116 void plastic RAL3000 0 0 5 0.301 0.054 0.020 0 0 # # RAL3001 : signalrot # reflectance factor: 0.092 void plastic RAL3001 0 0 5 0.259 0.035 0.008 0 0 # # RAL3002 : karminrot # reflectance factor: 0.093 void plastic RAL3002 0 0 5 0.256 0.037 0.012 0 0 # # RAL3004 : purperrot # reflectance factor: 0.041 void plastic RAL3004 0 0 5 0.110 0.017 0.010 0 0 # # RAL3005 : weinrot # reflectance factor: 0.028 void plastic RAL3005 0 0 5 0.072 0.013 0.010 0 0 # # RAL3007 : schwarzrot # reflectance factor: 0.018 void plastic RAL3007 0 0 5 0.035 0.012 0.011 0 0 # # RAL3009 : oxidrot # reflectance factor: 0.054 void plastic RAL3009 0 0 5 0.111 0.035 0.019 0 0 # # RAL3011 : braunrot # reflectance factor: 0.054 void plastic RAL3011 0 0 5 0.147 0.023 0.008 0 0 # # RAL3012 : beigerot # reflectance factor: 0.310 void plastic RAL3012 0 0 5 0.462 0.265 0.178 0 0 # # RAL3013 : tomatenrot # reflectance factor: 0.095 void plastic RAL3013 0 0 5 0.243 0.046 0.015 0 0 # # RAL3014 : altrosa # reflectance factor: 0.278 void plastic RAL3014 0 0 5 0.470 0.211 0.192 0 0 # # RAL3015 : hellrosa # reflectance factor: 0.441 void plastic RAL3015 0 0 5 0.572 0.393 0.406 0 0 # # RAL3016 : korallenrot # reflectance factor: 0.123 void plastic RAL3016 0 0 5 0.298 0.065 0.021 0 0 # # RAL3017 : rose # reflectance factor: 0.223 void plastic RAL3017 0 0 5 0.472 0.137 0.114 0 0 # # RAL3018 : erdbeerrot # reflectance factor: 0.190 void plastic RAL3018 0 0 5 0.454 0.099 0.075 0 0 # # RAL3020 : verkehrsrot # reflectance factor: 0.130 void plastic RAL3020 0 0 5 0.370 0.049 0.008 0 0 # # RAL3022 : lachsrot # reflectance factor: 0.257 void plastic RAL3022 0 0 5 0.500 0.179 0.099 0 0 # # RAL3027 : himbeerrot # reflectance factor: 0.122 void plastic RAL3027 0 0 5 0.323 0.051 0.045 0 0 # # RAL3031 : orientrot # reflectance factor: 0.118 void plastic RAL3031 0 0 5 0.288 0.059 0.039 0 0 # # RAL4001 : rotlila # reflectance factor: 0.154 void plastic RAL4001 0 0 5 0.174 0.138 0.221 0 0 # # RAL4002 : rotviolett # reflectance factor: 0.102 void plastic RAL4002 0 0 5 0.210 0.063 0.068 0 0 # # RAL4003 : erikaviolett # reflectance factor: 0.254 void plastic RAL4003 0 0 5 0.436 0.177 0.280 0 0 # # RAL4004 : bordeauxviolett # reflectance factor: 0.041 void plastic RAL4004 0 0 5 0.103 0.018 0.031 0 0 # # RAL4005 : blaulila # reflectance factor: 0.171 void plastic RAL4005 0 0 5 0.141 0.164 0.321 0 0 # # RAL4006 : verkehrspurper # reflectance factor: 0.110 void plastic RAL4006 0 0 5 0.208 0.065 0.161 0 0 # # RAL4007 : purperviolett # reflectance factor: 0.027 void plastic RAL4007 0 0 5 0.046 0.018 0.034 0 0 # # RAL4008 : signalviolett # reflectance factor: 0.129 void plastic RAL4008 0 0 5 0.181 0.097 0.222 0 0 # # RAL4009 : pastellviolett # reflectance factor: 0.261 void plastic RAL4009 0 0 5 0.271 0.253 0.290 0 0 # # RAL5000 : violettblau # reflectance factor: 0.067 void plastic RAL5000 0 0 5 0.013 0.077 0.156 0 0 # # RAL5001 : grunblau # reflectance factor: 0.067 void plastic RAL5001 0 0 5 0.013 0.077 0.156 0 0 # # RAL5002 : ultramarinblau # reflectance factor: 0.040 void plastic RAL5002 0 0 5 -0.003 0.043 0.156 0 0 # # RAL5003 : saphirblau # reflectance factor: 0.027 void plastic RAL5003 0 0 5 -0.004 0.032 0.086 0 0 # # RAL5004 : schwarzblau # reflectance factor: 0.006 void plastic RAL5004 0 0 5 0.002 0.007 0.014 0 0 # # RAL5005 : signalblau # reflectance factor: 0.060 void plastic RAL5005 0 0 5 -0.039 0.078 0.231 0 0 # # RAL5007 : brillantblau # reflectance factor: 0.112 void plastic RAL5007 0 0 5 0.020 0.132 0.248 0 0 # # RAL5008 : graublau # reflectance factor: 0.031 void plastic RAL5008 0 0 5 0.017 0.035 0.049 0 0 # # RAL5009 : azurblau # reflectance factor: 0.083 void plastic RAL5009 0 0 5 0.004 0.103 0.181 0 0 # # RAL5010 : enzianblau # reflectance factor: 0.054 void plastic RAL5010 0 0 5 -0.028 0.070 0.194 0 0 # # RAL5011 : stahlblau # reflectance factor: 0.013 void plastic RAL5011 0 0 5 -0.000 0.016 0.036 0 0 # # RAL5012 : lichtblau # reflectance factor: 0.194 void plastic RAL5012 0 0 5 -0.009 0.241 0.469 0 0 # # RAL5013 : kobaltblau # reflectance factor: 0.024 void plastic RAL5013 0 0 5 -0.000 0.027 0.079 0 0 # # RAL5014 : taubenblau # reflectance factor: 0.183 void plastic RAL5014 0 0 5 0.098 0.203 0.301 0 0 # # RAL5015 : himmelblau # reflectance factor: 0.155 void plastic RAL5015 0 0 5 -0.028 0.197 0.410 0 0 # # RAL5017 : verkehrsblau # reflectance factor: 0.073 void plastic RAL5017 0 0 5 -0.050 0.099 0.255 0 0 # # RAL5018 : turkisblau # reflectance factor: 0.184 void plastic RAL5018 0 0 5 0.014 0.240 0.279 0 0 # # RAL5019 : capriblau # reflectance factor: 0.080 void plastic RAL5019 0 0 5 -0.027 0.105 0.223 0 0 # # RAL5020 : ozeanblau # reflectance factor: 0.027 void plastic RAL5020 0 0 5 -0.015 0.039 0.061 0 0 # # RAL5021 : wasserblau # reflectance factor: 0.115 void plastic RAL5021 0 0 5 -0.023 0.162 0.187 0 0 # # RAL5022 : nachtblau # reflectance factor: 0.024 void plastic RAL5022 0 0 5 0.001 0.025 0.090 0 0 # # RAL5023 : fernblau # reflectance factor: 0.123 void plastic RAL5023 0 0 5 0.034 0.142 0.257 0 0 # # RAL5024 : pastellblau # reflectance factor: 0.252 void plastic RAL5024 0 0 5 0.098 0.293 0.417 0 0 # # RAL6000 : patinagrun # reflectance factor: 0.124 void plastic RAL6000 0 0 5 0.042 0.156 0.127 0 0 # # RAL6001 : smaragdgrun # reflectance factor: 0.087 void plastic RAL6001 0 0 5 0.034 0.114 0.039 0 0 # # RAL6002 : laubgrun # reflectance factor: 0.069 void plastic RAL6002 0 0 5 0.028 0.091 0.025 0 0 # # RAL6003 : olivgrun # reflectance factor: 0.071 void plastic RAL6003 0 0 5 0.064 0.077 0.044 0 0 # # RAL6004 : blaugrun # reflectance factor: 0.036 void plastic RAL6004 0 0 5 -0.001 0.048 0.053 0 0 # # RAL6005 : moosgrun # reflectance factor: 0.028 void plastic RAL6005 0 0 5 0.002 0.039 0.025 0 0 # # RAL6006 : grauoliv # reflectance factor: 0.033 void plastic RAL6006 0 0 5 0.031 0.035 0.025 0 0 # # RAL6007 : flaschengrun # reflectance factor: 0.024 void plastic RAL6007 0 0 5 0.018 0.027 0.015 0 0 # # RAL6008 : braungrun # reflectance factor: 0.020 void plastic RAL6008 0 0 5 0.023 0.020 0.009 0 0 # # RAL6009 : tannengrun # reflectance factor: 0.018 void plastic RAL6009 0 0 5 0.009 0.023 0.013 0 0 # # RAL6010 : grasgrun # reflectance factor: 0.100 void plastic RAL6010 0 0 5 0.062 0.124 0.035 0 0 # # RAL6011 : resedagrun # reflectance factor: 0.170 void plastic RAL6011 0 0 5 0.129 0.194 0.114 0 0 # # RAL6016 : turkisgrun # reflectance factor: 0.081 void plastic RAL6016 0 0 5 -0.003 0.114 0.081 0 0 # # RAL6018 : gelbgrun # reflectance factor: 0.219 void plastic RAL6018 0 0 5 0.116 0.280 0.063 0 0 # # RAL6019 : weissgrun # reflectance factor: 0.551 void plastic RAL6019 0 0 5 0.417 0.614 0.478 0 0 # # RAL6021 : blassgrun # reflectance factor: 0.289 void plastic RAL6021 0 0 5 0.226 0.322 0.225 0 0 # # RAL6024 : verkerhrsgrun # reflectance factor: 0.135 void plastic RAL6024 0 0 5 0.025 0.184 0.094 0 0 # # RAL6032 : signalgrun # reflectance factor: 0.130 void plastic RAL6032 0 0 5 0.022 0.179 0.089 0 0 # # RAL7000 : fehgrau # reflectance factor: 0.228 void plastic RAL7000 0 0 5 0.161 0.248 0.285 0 0 # # RAL7001 : silbergrau # reflectance factor: 0.300 void plastic RAL7001 0 0 5 0.229 0.322 0.356 0 0 # # RAL7004 : signalgrau # reflectance factor: 0.310 void plastic RAL7004 0 0 5 0.264 0.325 0.340 0 0 # # RAL7011 : eisengrau # reflectance factor: 0.092 void plastic RAL7011 0 0 5 0.068 0.100 0.110 0 0 # # RAL7012 : basaltgrau # reflectance factor: 0.103 void plastic RAL7012 0 0 5 0.077 0.111 0.120 0 0 # # RAL7013 : braungrau # reflectance factor: 0.072 void plastic RAL7013 0 0 5 0.074 0.074 0.053 0 0 # # RAL7015 : schiefergrau # reflectance factor: 0.077 void plastic RAL7015 0 0 5 0.059 0.082 0.094 0 0 # # RAL7016 : anthrazietgrau # reflectance factor: 0.040 void plastic RAL7016 0 0 5 0.027 0.044 0.051 0 0 # # RAL7021 : schwarzgrau # reflectance factor: 0.024 void plastic RAL7021 0 0 5 0.018 0.026 0.029 0 0 # # RAL7022 : umbragrau # reflectance factor: 0.051 void plastic RAL7022 0 0 5 0.047 0.053 0.048 0 0 # # RAL7023 : betongrau # reflectance factor: 0.202 void plastic RAL7023 0 0 5 0.179 0.213 0.193 0 0 # # RAL7024 : graphitgrau # reflectance factor: 0.059 void plastic RAL7024 0 0 5 0.044 0.063 0.073 0 0 # # RAL7026 : granitgrau # reflectance factor: 0.040 void plastic RAL7026 0 0 5 0.026 0.045 0.050 0 0 # # RAL7030 : steingrau # reflectance factor: 0.260 void plastic RAL7030 0 0 5 0.236 0.271 0.249 0 0 # # RAL7031 : blaugrau # reflectance factor: 0.122 void plastic RAL7031 0 0 5 0.084 0.134 0.152 0 0 # # RAL7032 : kieselgrau # reflectance factor: 0.434 void plastic RAL7032 0 0 5 0.401 0.452 0.390 0 0 # # RAL7033 : zementgrau # reflectance factor: 0.198 void plastic RAL7033 0 0 5 0.166 0.212 0.185 0 0 # # RAL7034 : gelbgrau # reflectance factor: 0.237 void plastic RAL7034 0 0 5 0.241 0.244 0.172 0 0 # # RAL7035 : lichtgrau # reflectance factor: 0.551 void plastic RAL7035 0 0 5 0.465 0.582 0.582 0 0 # # RAL7036 : platingrau # reflectance factor: 0.275 void plastic RAL7036 0 0 5 0.245 0.285 0.290 0 0 # # RAL7037 : staubgrau # reflectance factor: 0.196 void plastic RAL7037 0 0 5 0.166 0.206 0.208 0 0 # # RAL7038 : achatgrau # reflectance factor: 0.420 void plastic RAL7038 0 0 5 0.363 0.443 0.425 0 0 # # RAL7039 : quarzgrau # reflectance factor: 0.136 void plastic RAL7039 0 0 5 0.126 0.141 0.128 0 0 # # RAL7040 : fenstergrau # reflectance factor: 0.330 void plastic RAL7040 0 0 5 0.265 0.350 0.378 0 0 # # RAL7042 : verkehrsgrau_A # reflectance factor: 0.277 void plastic RAL7042 0 0 5 0.227 0.293 0.305 0 0 # # RAL7043 : verkehrsgrau_B # reflectance factor: 0.073 void plastic RAL7043 0 0 5 0.057 0.078 0.080 0 0 # # RAL7044 : seidengrau # reflectance factor: 0.446 void plastic RAL7044 0 0 5 0.408 0.464 0.427 0 0 # # RAL8000 : grunbraun # reflectance factor: 0.151 void plastic RAL8000 0 0 5 0.206 0.141 0.053 0 0 # # RAL8001 : ockerbraun # reflectance factor: 0.167 void plastic RAL8001 0 0 5 0.282 0.138 0.035 0 0 # # RAL8002 : signalbraun # reflectance factor: 0.088 void plastic RAL8002 0 0 5 0.147 0.070 0.037 0 0 # # RAL8003 : lehmbraun # reflectance factor: 0.097 void plastic RAL8003 0 0 5 0.171 0.077 0.021 0 0 # # RAL8004 : kupferbraun # reflectance factor: 0.107 void plastic RAL8004 0 0 5 0.209 0.075 0.032 0 0 # # RAL8007 : rehbraun # reflectance factor: 0.066 void plastic RAL8007 0 0 5 0.116 0.052 0.016 0 0 # # RAL8008 : olivbraun # reflectance factor: 0.082 void plastic RAL8008 0 0 5 0.131 0.069 0.023 0 0 # # RAL8011 : nussbraun # reflectance factor: 0.046 void plastic RAL8011 0 0 5 0.078 0.037 0.016 0 0 # # RAL8012 : rotbraun # reflectance factor: 0.049 void plastic RAL8012 0 0 5 0.097 0.034 0.019 0 0 # # RAL8014 : sepiabraun # reflectance factor: 0.035 void plastic RAL8014 0 0 5 0.050 0.031 0.015 0 0 # # RAL8015 : kastanienbraun # reflectance factor: 0.039 void plastic RAL8015 0 0 5 0.078 0.026 0.014 0 0 # # RAL8016 : mahogonibraun # reflectance factor: 0.032 void plastic RAL8016 0 0 5 0.055 0.025 0.013 0 0 # # RAL8017 : schokoladebraun # reflectance factor: 0.025 void plastic RAL8017 0 0 5 0.040 0.020 0.013 0 0 # # RAL8019 : graubraun # reflectance factor: 0.028 void plastic RAL8019 0 0 5 0.029 0.028 0.025 0 0 # # RAL8022 : schwarzbraun # reflectance factor: 0.006 void plastic RAL8022 0 0 5 0.009 0.005 0.005 0 0 # # RAL8023 : orangebraun # reflectance factor: 0.156 void plastic RAL8023 0 0 5 0.301 0.114 0.031 0 0 # # RAL8024 : beigebraun # reflectance factor: 0.101 void plastic RAL8024 0 0 5 0.156 0.086 0.045 0 0 # # RAL8025 : blassbraub # reflectance factor: 0.103 void plastic RAL8025 0 0 5 0.139 0.094 0.061 0 0 # # RAL8028 : terrabraun # reflectance factor: 0.042 void plastic RAL8028 0 0 5 0.061 0.037 0.019 0 0 # # RAL9001 : cremeweiss # reflectance factor: 0.775 void plastic RAL9001 0 0 5 0.715 0.803 0.746 0 0 # # RAL9002 : grauweiss # reflectance factor: 0.668 void plastic RAL9002 0 0 5 0.591 0.700 0.665 0 0 # # RAL9003 : signalweiss # reflectance factor: 0.827 void plastic RAL9003 0 0 5 0.705 0.868 0.895 0 0 # # RAL9004 : signalschwarz # reflectance factor: 0.011 void plastic RAL9004 0 0 5 0.011 0.011 0.012 0 0 # # RAL9005 : tefschwarz # reflectance factor: 0.002 void plastic RAL9005 0 0 5 0.002 0.002 0.003 0 0 # # RAL9010 : reinweiss # reflectance factor: 0.838 void plastic RAL9010 0 0 5 0.738 0.877 0.846 0 0 # # RAL9011 : graphitschwarz # reflectance factor: 0.009 void plastic RAL9011 0 0 5 0.008 0.009 0.011 0 0 # # RAL9016 : verkehrsweiss # reflectance factor: 0.839 void plastic RAL9016 0 0 5 0.739 0.879 0.846 0 0 # # RAL9017 : verkehrsschwarz # reflectance factor: 0.005 void plastic RAL9017 0 0 5 0.005 0.005 0.005 0 0 # # RAL9018 : papyrusweiss # reflectance factor: 0.600 void plastic RAL9018 0 0 5 0.502 0.636 0.622 0 0 From ludo@shore.net Wed Jun 19 04:03:49 1996 Return-Path: From: "Ludovico Magnocavallo" To: "Radiance Mailing List" Subject: new user questions Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:07:15 +0200 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 Status: RO Hi everybody, I'm new to Radiance, and very excited by the images (architectural, mostly) I've seen. I have a couple of questions: - trad spits out a ton of error messages on my machine (Linux). I have the latest release of tcl/tk installed, and the errors appear to be related to discontinued tcl/tk commands. Is there any fix for that, apart from installing an old release of the language? - Has anybody tried writing perl scripts for rad projects maintenance/modification/creation? Is anybody willing to start such a project? Perl is available for most (all?) *nix systems and is, in my opinion, an easy and powerful tool for text manipulation. arch. Ludovico Magnocavallo ludo@shore.net From shankerj@orion.scr.siemens.com Wed Jun 19 06:45:02 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:45:09 -0400 From: Shanker Janakiraman To: gjward@lbl.gov Subject: subscription to radiance digest Status: RO Hello: I was subscribing to radiance digest. Since my address has changed, can you update the mailing list with the change. I forget where to send the mail, hence I am sending it to you. Thanks. old address: shankerj@pptvision.com new address: shankerj@scr.siemens.com Shanker Janakiraman From greg Wed Jun 19 11:49:05 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 09:05:23 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: ludo@shore.net, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: new user questions Status: RO A new version of trad that works with Tk 4.0 is tested and ready for distribution in the next release of Radiance (2.6). I just need to get my act together long enough to make the official release. Maybe sometime this week. -Greg From jadi@fago.bwk.tue.nl Mon Jun 24 02:05:39 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:05:18 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jan Diepens To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: RAL colors Status: RO --78ee_628b-7fd3_37b3-6ea8_65b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: FcR2N61ZyEnWQzFeaVLsnw== X-Sun-Data-Type: text Greg, I didn't know of the existence off the conversion routines in the Radiance source but for the conversion of XYZ to rgb I have used some matlab software developed bij "haanpalo@lut.fi" A copy of this software can be obtained from: http://www.lut.fi/ltkk/tite/research/color/lutcs_readme.html#munsell_aotf. For the XYZ values I didn't measure the spectrum myself but have used the publication "Farbregister RAL 841-GL"of the "Deutsches institut fur Gutesichering und Kennzeichnung" (see attachment 1). Regards, Jan --78ee_628b-7fd3_37b3-6ea8_65b1 Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: eRmBmXHMHIBap8Xwwqa0og== Content-Description: RALXYZ RAL Farbename X10 Y10 Z10 1000 grunbeige 46.3 49.1 28.2 1001 beige 45.3 45.8 27.0 1002 sandgelb 43.8 43.7 19.7 1003 signalgelb 51.0 46.2 3.4 1004 goldgelb 44.3 41.2 3.6 1005 honiggelb 33.0 31.1 1.9 1006 maisgelb 42.1 37.2 2.7 1007 chromgelb 42.1 35.9 1.6 1011 braunbeige 26.1 24.5 9.7 1012 zitronengelb 45.2 45.8 7.5 1013 perlweiss 67.8 71.3 64.0 1014 elfenbein 55.4 57.4 37.1 1015 hellelfenbein 65.2 67.8 53.7 1016 schwefelgelb 62.0 70.2 13.5 1017 safrangelb 52.1 46.9 11.7 1018 zinkgelb 62.1 63.7 11.2 1019 graubeige 28.8 29.1 21.3 1020 olivgelb 27.0 28.2 14.9 1021 kadmiumgelb 53.3 52.0 2.7 1023 verkehrsgelb 55.2 53.9 3.8 1024 okergelb 31.0 30.3 10.1 1027 currygelb 23.3 23.3 2.9 1028 melongelb 55.5 46.7 1.9 1032 ginstergelb 43.0 41.1 4.4 1033 dahliengelb 50.1 43.3 4.8 1034 pastellgelb 47.4 41.7 11.7 2000 gelborange 35.0 26.5 1.7 2001 rotorange 23.6 15.6 2.1 2002 blutorange 22.6 13.2 1.4 2003 pastellorange 43.7 32.0 5.1 2004 reinorange 35.1 22.7 1.6 2008 hellrotorange 40.4 28.6 3.2 2009 verkehrsorange 33.1 21.6 1.6 2010 signalorange 29.0 19.9 2.1 2011 tieforange 39.6 29.4 3.5 2012 lachsorange 32.4 22.7 7.6 3000 feuerrot 16.8 9.7 2.0 3001 signalrot 13.9 7.4 0.8 3002 karminrot 13.9 7.5 1.2 3004 purperrot 6.1 3.3 1.0 3005 weinrot 4.1 2.3 1.0 3007 schwarzrot 2.3 1.6 1.1 3009 oxidrot 6.9 4.8 1.9 3011 braunrot 8.1 4.5 0.8 3012 beigerot 34.4 29.8 17.9 3013 tomatenrot 13.6 8.0 1.5 3014 altrosa 33.4 25.6 19.2 3015 hellrosa 48.3 42.4 40.6 3016 korallenrot 17.0 10.5 2.1 3017 rose 29.6 19.5 11.4 3018 erdbeerrot 26.8 16.1 7.5 3020 verkehrsrot 19.8 10.5 0.8 3022 lachsrot 32.0 23.4 10.0 3027 himbeerrot 18.3 9.9 4.5 3031 orientrot 16.7 9.9 3.9 4001 rotlila 17.2 14.5 22.0 4002 rotviolett 13.6 8.9 6.8 4003 erikaviolett 32.4 22.3 27.9 4004 bordeauxviolett 6.2 3.3 3.1 4005 blaulila 18.4 16.1 31.9 4006 verkehrspurper 15.4 9.1 16.0 4007 purperviolett 3.5 2.3 3.4 4008 signalviolett 16.3 11.3 22.1 4009 pastellviolett 26.9 25.6 29.0 5000 violettblau 6.1 6.6 15.5 5001 grunblau 6.1 6.6 15.5 5002 ultramarinblau 4.3 3.6 15.5 5003 saphirblau 2.5 2.6 8.5 5004 schwarzblau 0.6 0.6 1.4 5005 signalblau 5.1 5.9 22.9 5007 brillantblau 10.0 11.3 24.7 5008 graublau 2.9 3.2 4.9 5009 azurblau 7.0 8.6 18.0 5010 enzianblau 4.7 5.4 19.3 5011 stahlblau 1.2 1.3 3.6 5012 lichtblau 16.4 19.9 46.7 5013 kobaltblau 2.4 2.3 7.8 5014 taubenblau 17.1 18.5 30.0 5015 himmelblau 12.9 15.9 40.8 5017 verkehrsblau 5.7 7.4 25.3 5018 turkisblau 13.7 20.0 27.9 5019 capriblau 6.4 8.3 22.2 5020 ozeanblau 1.7 3.0 6.1 5021 wasserblau 7.6 12.9 18.7 5022 nachtblau 2.6 2.1 8.9 5023 fernblau 11.2 12.4 25.6 5024 pastellblau 22.2 25.9 41.6 6000 patinagrun 9.4 13.5 12.7 6001 smaragdgrun 6.0 9.9 4.0 6002 laubgrun 4.7 7.9 2.6 6003 olivgrun 6.4 7.4 4.4 6004 blaugrun 2.5 3.9 5.3 6005 moosgrun 1.8 3.2 2.5 6006 grauoliv 3.1 3.4 2.5 6007 flaschengrun 2.0 2.5 1.5 6008 braungrun 1.9 2.0 0.9 6009 tannengrun 1.4 2.0 1.3 6010 grasgrun 7.6 11.2 3.6 6011 resedagrun 14.6 18.1 11.5 6016 turkisgrun 5.0 9.3 8.1 6018 gelbgrun 15.6 24.8 6.5 6019 weissgrun 49.0 57.7 47.9 6021 blassgrun 25.5 30.3 22.6 6024 verkerhrsgrun 8.8 15.5 9.5 6032 signalgrun 8.4 15.0 9.0 7000 fehgrau 21.3 23.3 28.5 7001 silbergrau 28.3 30.5 35.6 7004 signalgrau 29.8 31.4 34.0 7011 eisengrau 8.6 9.4 11.0 7012 basaltgrau 9.6 10.5 12.0 7013 braungrau 7.0 7.4 5.3 7015 schiefergrau 7.3 7.8 9.4 7016 anthrazietgrau 3.7 4.1 5.1 7021 schwarzgrau 2.3 2.5 2.9 7022 umbragrau 4.9 5.2 4.8 7023 betongrau 19.2 20.6 19.3 7024 graphitgrau 5.6 6.0 7.3 7026 granitgrau 3.7 4.2 5.0 7030 steingrau 24.9 26.4 24.9 7031 blaugrau 11.3 12.5 15.2 7032 kieselgrau 41.4 44.1 39.1 7033 zementgrau 18.4 20.3 18.5 7034 gelbgrau 22.8 24.2 17.3 7035 lichtgrau 52.4 56.0 58.2 7036 platingrau 26.6 27.7 29.0 7037 staubgrau 18.7 19.9 20.8 7038 achatgrau 40.0 42.8 42.5 7039 quarzgrau 13.1 13.8 12.8 7040 fenstergrau 31.4 33.5 37.8 7042 verkehrsgrau_A 26.3 28.1 30.5 7043 verkehrsgrau_B 6.8 7.4 8.0 7044 seidengrau 42.9 45.3 42.7 8000 grunbraun 15.5 15.1 5.4 8001 ockerbraun 18.8 16.2 3.6 8002 signalbraun 10.1 8.3 3.7 8003 lehmbraun 11.2 9.3 2.2 8004 kupferbraun 13.2 9.8 3.2 8007 rehbraun 7.6 6.3 1.6 8008 olivbraun 9.0 7.9 2.3 8011 nussbraun 5.3 4.4 1.6 8012 rotbraun 6.2 4.5 1.9 8014 sepiabraun 3.7 3.4 1.5 8015 kastanienbraun 4.9 3.5 1.4 8016 mahogonibraun 3.7 3.0 1.3 8017 schokoladebraun 2.8 2.3 1.3 8019 graubraun 2.8 2.8 2.5 8022 schwarzbraun 0.7 0.6 0.5 8023 orangebraun 18.9 14.6 3.2 8024 beigebraun 11.2 9.8 4.5 8025 blassbraub 10.9 10.1 6.1 8028 terrabraun 4.5 4.1 1.9 9001 cremeweiss 74.8 78.5 74.7 9002 grauweiss 63.9 67.9 66.5 9003 signalweiss 79.3 83.8 89.5 9004 signalschwarz 1.1 1.1 1.2 9005 tefschwarz 0.2 0.2 0.3 9010 reinweiss 80.2 85.0 84.6 9011 graphitschwarz 0.9 0.9 1.1 9016 verkehrsweiss 80.3 85.2 84.6 9017 verkehrsschwarz 0.5 0.5 0.5 9018 papyrusweiss 56.7 61.1 62.2 --78ee_628b-7fd3_37b3-6ea8_65b1-- From greg Mon Jun 24 11:12:16 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 10:44:11 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss Subject: Radiance mail from Georg Mischler Status: RO We've been having trouble with your discussion group mailing list and some mailers, so I suggest if you want to play it safe, that you send your post to me and I'll forward it to the group. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >From gm@hl-technik.de Fri Jun 21 01:02:50 1996 Return-Path: From: "Georg Mischler" To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:45:00 -0200 Subject: Re: discussion group mailing X-Gateway: iGate, (GroupWise) vers 4.04o - 1082 Status: RO > Did you send something to the discussion group? My mailer has been going > nuts for the past few days with connections from your machine, apparently > attempting to post mail to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov. Can you > send me the mail you meant to post and somehow kill your queued mail > job on your end? Hi Greg, indeed, my message bounced by now with a "User unknown" error, though I'm pretty sure that my alias is correct. Unfortunately there was no transscript included in the bounce to verify ... Anyway, here goes my message to the list. It wouldn*t surprise me if you wanted to comment on it anyway. thanks a lot Georg ------ Re: new user question Ludovico Magnocavallo wrote: > - trad spits out a ton of error messages on my machine (Linux). I have the > latest release of tcl/tk installed, and the errors appear to be related to > discontinued tcl/tk commands. > Is there any fix for that, apart from installing an old release of the > language? > - Has anybody tried writing perl scripts for rad projects > maintenance/modification/creation? Is anybody willing to start such a > project? Perl is available for most (all?) *nix systems and is, in my > opinion, an easy and powerful tool for text manipulation. Hi Ludovico As far as I know, everybody who is using trad does have an old tcl/tk version installed. Your second question looks more interesting to me. Being a new radiance user, you may not be familiar with the history of the torad/radout/ddrad family of programs. I am currently trying to bring the ddrad autocad to radiance translator and user interface into a sufficiently stable state to release it to the general public. This project probably already covers many of the features you'd like to see in a perl based system. However, it is currently based on ADS/autolisp/DCL, and therefore can't be used without running autocad. One reason I am pressing to get a release of ddrad out as soon as possible is that I have decided to change the strategy behind it. My new goal (though not coordinated with the other project contributers yet) is to move all modules that don't depend on autocad by nature (which is geometry and view export etc.) away from autolisp. In the end there should be a graphical user interface to radiance which can be used standalone *or* as a part of ddrad. The language I am considering though is not perl, but python. This may be a philosophical decision, but I have come to like python by using it in a very short time. Phyton is a hybrid object oriented, interpreted language, which runs on every unix system, as well as on dos/win and the mac. It has interfaces to gui systems (most importantly tk), with implementations available for non unix platforms too. It a little bit slower than perl (while still a lot faster than tcl), but on the other hand the object oriented concepts are integrated into the language design from the beginning, and it is much more powerful in the nunerical area. I have allready written a working radiance material file parser in python, and I intend to do more in that direction. Of course I would be glad to see more participants to this project, in additions to those that have allready contributed significant parts. You may or may not be happy with my choice of python... but I recommend that you at least have a look at it (http://www.python.org/). Let me know what you think. Now that I have publicly promised to release ddrad ...: I hope it will happen before the end of this year. I have suggested a feature freeze to myself, just to get it out. Many of the concepts I have talked about earlier (or was that only in a smaller circle?) will not be implemented in lisp anymore, but those that are allready there are still nice enough to make it worth the effort. Watch this list for further announcements (there will be a related web site soon). Hope I explained more than I confused anyone ... Georg Georg Mischler \ / HL-Technik AG, Lichtplanung T: +49-89/72406-315 Daylighting && - o - Wolfratshauser Strasse 56 F: +49-89/72406-309 && Simulations / \ D - 81379 Muenchen, Germany E: gm@hl-technik.de From Neil.Sinclair@bae.co.uk Tue Jun 25 02:06:00 1996 Return-Path: Mr-Received: by mta WDTCV3; Relayed; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:06:59 +0000 Mr-Received: by mta HQX400; Relayed; Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:04:11 +0000 Alternate-Recipient: prohibited Disclose-Recipients: prohibited Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:02:00 +0000 (GMT) From: "Neil Sinclair (0161) 955-" Subject: Radiance Mailing List. To: gjward@lbl.gov Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:06:00 +0000 (GMT) Importance: high Priority: urgent X400-Mts-Identifier: [;95600152606991/199209@WDNACA] A1-Type: MAIL Hop-Count: 2 Status: RO Hi, I have just downloaded Radiance and would grateful if you could add me to the mailing list. Thanks Neil Sinclair From shadap@teil.soft.net Tue Jun 25 03:57:58 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:51:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Sunil S. Hadap" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Dear Radiance Lover, I am trying to use radiance for the purpose of lighting calculations for architectural walkthroghs. Following is my work flow. o I use MultiGen and Alias for modeling the scene. o I intend to use Radiance for the pre-processing of the model for ralistic lighting calculations. O/P expected is texture maps for the walls and probably all the polys in the scene. o Use Performer and Vega for the actual walkthroughs. Many of the lighting application (say like Lightscape's) can give o/p which can be read by performer directly by means of the loaders provided. Are there any such loaders for Radiance. If not I will be interested in developing one for which I need to know little bit more about how Radince can give the Lighthing o/p for the full scene and not just in perticular direction. Thanking You Sunil Hadap o------------------------------o / COMPUTER GRAPHICS HAPPENS HERE \ o-------------------o-----------------o----------------o----------------------o | Sunil Sharadchandra Hadap | | | TATA ELXSI (INDIA) LTD. | | | Whitefield Road, Mahadevpura Post, | 2363, 2nd Cross, HAL 3rd, | | Hoody, Bangalore - 560 048 - INDIA | Konena Agrahara, Vimanpura Post, | | Tel : 91-80-8452016 / 8452017 | Bangalore-17 | | E_mail: shadap@teil.soft.net | | | Time : 9.30 AM to 6.00 PM (INDIA) | | o-------------------------------------o---------------------------------------o From greg Tue Jun 25 10:21:35 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 09:58:26 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov, shadap@teil.soft.net Subject: Radiance and Performer Cc: burr@stobart.coryphaeus.com Status: RO > From shadap@teil.soft.net Tue Jun 25 03:57:58 1996 > > Many of the lighting application (say like Lightscape's) can give o/p > which can be read by performer directly by means of the loaders provided. > Are there any such loaders for Radiance. If not I will be interested in > developing one for which I need to know little bit more about how Radince > can give the Lighthing o/p for the full scene and not just in perticular > direction. I have heard a number of requests for such a feature from various people, and a few have even had some success implementing such a thing. Tim Burr at Coryphaeus software, for one. It is possible to compute irradiance values or even texture maps for surfaces, though you will find yourself running out of texture memory quickly if you attempt to do this for all your scene surfaces. I believe Lightscape combines simple, repeated texture maps with vertex radiosities in its Performer/VRML output. This makes good use of memory while providing a fairly realistic, interactive display. Unfortunately, since Radiance has a very different notion of texture from most rendering hardware, extracting such information would be difficult. What you can do, is compute vertex irradiance values (assuming you have a polygonal scene) using rtrace with the -I option. These can then be combined with your translated scene geometry as input to Performer. The easiest way to go about this, I think, is to open a pipe to rtrace within your translator program, and send it vertex coordinates and normals so you can read back RGB irradiance values. By multiplying these values by each surface's diffuse reflection, you get vertex radiosity, suitable for Gouraud shading. -Greg From greg Thu Jun 27 10:41:19 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 10:40:39 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Subject: mailer craziness Status: RO I think you posted something to the Radiance discussion group (radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov), but your mailer is just going crazy talking to my mailer, so perhaps you should send it to me instead, so I can post it to the group once things die down. If you know who to talk to on your system, you might also ask him or her to remove your old mail from the queue so my machine can do something else for awhile. Thanks. -Greg From stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Thu Jun 27 12:17:29 1996 Return-Path: Reply-To: Stephen Benson To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:55:06 Subject: Re: mailer craziness From: Stephen Benson Status: RO >I think you posted something to the Radiance discussion group >(radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov), but your mailer is just going >crazy talking to my mailer, so perhaps you should send it to me >instead, so I can post it to the group once things die down. >If you know who to talk to on your system, you might also ask >him or her to remove your old mail from the queue so my machine >can do something else for awhile. I've asked them to sort it out, so hopefully they will. If it gets desperate, these are they: help@ibmpcug.co.uk and jake@pcug.co.uk Here's my post; as to working it out, it's more I'm too busy than lazy. > > >This cropped up on the Lightwave newsgroup, and I thought I'd >request some tips here too: > >>If you already have a computational model of the light transmitted by >>the cloud, you can use its output to create a sequence of transparency >>(opacity) maps that can be used as either a foreground alpha channel or >>a transparency texture on a plane in front of the camera. >> >>If you're *looking for* a computational model, I wouldn't necessarily >>trust any 3D image software to give you a believable answer, although >>you might consider looking at povray, the source for which is at least >>available for examination. > >I think Radiance -- http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/home.html -- >will do this and I'd love to try, but I'd need more detail on the >process of using the info to create the maps. Can anyone help? It's >a while since I used Radiance, so any help would be appreciated. > > From stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Thu Jun 27 10:53:30 1996 Return-Path: Reply-To: Stephen Benson To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Cc: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:22:59 Subject: Re: Faking Volumetric Lights From: Stephen Benson Status: RO This cropped up on the Lightwave newsgroup, and I thought I'd request some tips here too: >If you already have a computational model of the light transmitted by >the cloud, you can use its output to create a sequence of transparency >(opacity) maps that can be used as either a foreground alpha channel or >a transparency texture on a plane in front of the camera. > >If you're *looking for* a computational model, I wouldn't necessarily >trust any 3D image software to give you a believable answer, although >you might consider looking at povray, the source for which is at least >available for examination. I think Radiance -- http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/home.html -- will do this and I'd love to try, but I'd need more detail on the process of using the info to create the maps. Can anyone help? It's a while since I used Radiance, so any help would be appreciated. From eslinger@CERF.NET Mon Jul 8 21:50:45 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 21:50:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "George A. Eslinger" To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: subscribe Status: RO Gregory - Following your advice, and in order to learn more about 'radiance' as a resource please subscribe me to both lists... Thanks..... George A. Eslinger Director, Bureau of Street Lighting City of Los Angeles Phone: 213-847-6401, FAX: 213-847-5405 E-mail: eslinger@cerf.net or geslinger@bsl.ci.la.ca.us WWW (World Wide Web): http://www.ci.la.ca.us/Department/bsl/ On Mon, 8 Jul 1996, Gregory J. Ward wrote: > Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request > > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. > > -Greg > From steinle_k@NTU.EDU.AU Sun Jul 14 21:59:03 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:14:02 -0700 From: Kim Steinle Subject: Radiance Discussion Group To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Organization: Northern Territory University X-Url: http://www.nscee.edu/unlv/Libraries/arch/rsrce/webrsrce/sect2.html#2.0 Status: RO Would you please consider me for inclusion on the Radiance Discussion Group? My details are as follows: Name : Kim R. Steinle Qualifications: B. Arch. [Hons] Dip.Tech.Planning Position: Lecturer [Architecture & Planning] Work: School of the Built Environment Faculty of Technology Northern Territory University Postal Address: School of the Built Environment Faculty of Technology Northern Territory University DARWIN NT 0909 email Address: kim.steinle@ntu.edu.au From dawsonas@phoenix.net Wed Jul 17 11:44:58 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:43:04 -0500 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: dawsonas@phoenix.net (Randy Dawson) Subject: Status: RO subscribe moderated subscribe digest From sabine@macsi.ut.tu-berlin.de Sat Jul 20 16:06:44 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 23:05:45 GMT From: Sabine To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Status: RO I wish to subscribe to the Radiance discussion list. Sabine Wolf I study architekture and do a lot of work in visualisation and animation of architecture. My first real use of radiance was pictures for a urban development project. I modelled it in Softimage and converted it via the Wavefront format. It looks much better than a softimage rendering. From isaack@brush.bre.co.uk Thu Aug 8 00:56:02 1996 Return-Path: Sender: isaack@brush.bre.co.uk Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 08:50:40 EDT From: isaack@bre.co.uk Reply-To: isaack@brush.bre.co.uk To: RADIANCE-REQUEST@HOBBES.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe Status: RO Please subscribe me at both my E-Mail addresses ISAACK@BRE.CO.UK me93kai@brunel.ac.uk Cheers Kelvin Date: 08-Aug-1996 08:50am From: Kelvin Isaac ISAACK Tel No: (01923) 664871 Subject: Subscribe From jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au Fri Aug 30 23:24:05 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 14:29:29 +0800 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au (jeremy) Subject: CD-Rom Status: RO Dear Radiance users, After being on this list for so long, I think this is one of my very few posts so far. I don't have much time to have fun with radiance, but when I do I can see how far advanced this rendering software is over most packages I've encountered. Anyway, we have a project going here at our University (Curtin University of Technology Perth, Western Australia.), whereby we are producing a cd-rom displaying digital artwork / multi-media work, including a great deal of 3D work. Most of this work has come from all across Australia, but if anyone has images/quicktimes/mpegs/QTVR etc done in Radiance (or otherwise), and would like them included on the cd, we would be extremely happy to include them. We're not charging anything for space, the cd is being made because we love what we do and want to show it off. But there is one catch!... the cd is being pressed on Monday the 2nd, that's right in two days!. So if you're at all interested we have a website for your information (http://house.curtin.edu.au/ - best viewed with quicktime and shockwave plug-ins). There is a form that needs to be filled out before we accept any work - house.curtin.edu.au/submit.html. It's only short and explains that you retain all copyright on your work. The cd is being brokered by a large multimedia company here in Perth, IMAGO Multimedia Centre and cd purchasing information will eventually be obtainable via their website (http://www.imago.com.au/). The project is also backed by Headus Metamorphosis, who run the Cyberware scanner here in Perth, and who you may have bumped into recently at SIGGRAPH. The cd will be distributed across Australia and overseas depending on demand. Files can be transferred to our ftp site (134.7.138.44 /pub/incoming/) or emailed to myself. I hope some of you can contribute, Radiance really is an excellent product. -jeremy -------------------------------------- jeremy@picasso.ece.curtin.edu.au http://www.ece.curtin.edu.au/~jeremy/ b.h. ph: +61-9-351-2316 a.h. ph: +61-9-385-0608 fax: 351 2971 -------------------------------------- From imolloy@aoife.indigo.ie Sat Aug 31 02:15:19 1996 Return-Path: Sender: From: "Ian Molloy" To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 10:16:42 +0000 Subject: Re: which list? Reply-To: imolloy@indigo.ie Priority: normal Status: RO Dear Greg, Please subscribe me to both the moderated announcement and digest mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group. I was unaware of the two, however Im sure they will both help me with my project work. Many Thanks, and keep up the good work, Regards, Ian Molloy Dublin Institute of Technology From greg Thu Sep 5 11:12:51 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 10:45:50 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc.list Subject: Radiance discussion group mailing Status: RO As usual, write to "radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov" if you wish to be removed from this list. >From u2126609@keystone.arch.unsw.EDU.AU Wed Sep 4 18:05:41 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:03:50 +1000 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: Mwaniki Wa-Gichia Subject: rtrace calculations Status: RO Dear Radiance users, I am using Radiance for the calculation of illuminance in room interiors under clear sunny sky conditions. There is reflection of sunlight off surrounding buildings. Are there any suggestions of the value of the -ab (ambient divisions) option to use in "rtrace", for a realistic illuminance calculation? Thanks, Mwaniki wa-Gichia, University of New South Wales, School of Architecture, Sydney. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, I recommend using your own judgement as to how many bounces are needed to get an accurate calculation. In general, the answer depends on how the light is getting into the space, as well as the reflectance values of the various surfaces. If you use the rad or trad programs as you should, the -ab setting is proportional to the setting of the INDIRECT variable, which is the number of bounces before light reaches the surfaces of interest in most cases. Quoting the help file from trad: The "Indirect" setting indicates how important indirect illumination is in this space. A setting of "0" means that most light falls directly on visible surfaces, and this setting can be used in most cases. A setting of "1" means that most objects are not directly illuminated by light sources, but receive light only after it has bounced once off some other surface, such as the ceiling. Likewise, a setting of "2" means that light must reflect twice off other surfaces before reaching most objects of interest. Keep in mind that the rendering calculation increases substantially with each increment to this variable, so it is a good idea to use the smallest reasonable value. -Greg From dxs@diac.com Tue Sep 17 10:00:50 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:01:07 GMT From: Dan Stanger To: Status: RO i would like to subscribe to both lists. thanks, dan.stanger@internut.com >From greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Tue Sep 17 16:52 GMT 1996 Return-path: Received: from lbl.gov (lbl.gov [128.3.254.23]) by diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16407 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:52:08 GMT Received: from hobbes.lbl.gov by lbl.gov (4.1/1.39) id AA13499; Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:51:21 PDT Received: by hobbes.lbl.gov (3.2/SMI-3.2) id AA08841; Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:50:43 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 09:50:43 PDT From: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Content-Length: 319 Content-Type: text/plain Message-ID: <9609171650.AA08841@hobbes.lbl.gov> To: dxs@november.diac.com Subject: subscription help Hi Dan, There are two Radiance mailing lists, the moderated announcement and digest mailing list, and the unmoderated discussion group. Usually people subscribe either to the announcement list only, or to both lists. I answer these mails, so just write a short note saying which one(s) you want to subscribe. -Greg From greg Thu Sep 19 10:00:51 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 09:35:57 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc.list Subject: VRML -> Radiance translators Status: RO Does anyone have any experience writing translators from VRML, who might be interested in writing one into Radiance? (As usual, please write to "radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov" to unsubscribe from this mailing list.) ------------------------------------ >From th@prosun.first.gmd.de Thu Sep 19 08:29:56 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 17:29:37 +0200 From: th@prosun.first.gmd.de (Tobias Harke) To: GJWard@lbl.gov Subject: Radiance Group Status: RO Dear Mr. Ward, we are trying to incorporate the Radiance 3.0 rackage into a hybrid, speed-adaptive visualisation-system for architectural planning. Thatfor we have the neeed for a conversion of 3DStudio-Max -> VRML 2.0 -> Radiance - files which disables the elseway possible workaround of importing 3ds[max] -> mgf -> radiance coming up whith the mgflib-distribution (3ds2mgf | mgf2rad, while losing some texture information, but possibly already while exporting *.3ds whith 3dsmax, and raytracing simple-colored cubes isn't much visual fun) Maybe we'll try to extend VRML 2.0 by some additional texture and material Prototypes which are ignored unless HQ-rendering is required. Maybe you would forward this to the radiance discussion- group for helpful comments to the topic. Moreover I would like to subscribe to the Radiance- discussion-group as well as to the mailing list if you would add me to the list. Thank you in advance, Tobias --------------------------------------------------------- Tobias Harke | E-mail: Tobias.Harke@gmd.de --------------------------------------------------------- From @explorer.dgp.toronto.edu:guo@dgp.toronto.edu Mon Sep 23 10:16:37 1996 Return-Path: <@explorer.dgp.toronto.edu:guo@dgp.toronto.edu> From: Baining Guo To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance digest Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:15:33 -0400 Status: R >OK, I've subscribed you to the Radiance digest and announcement list. Thanks, >Did you also wish to subscribe to the unmoderated discussion group list? Sure. By the way, I really enjoy using Radiance ! -Baining From paulg@teleport.com Mon Sep 23 23:24:11 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:57:53 -800 Subject: Radiance discussion Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: R I wish to subscribe to the Radiance discussion group. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. From greg Wed Sep 25 10:25:44 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 09:57:56 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: greg, raydisc.list Subject: wood texture and other Radiance questions Status: R Here is a posting to the Radiance discussion group from Terry Ridder. Write to Terry directly if you want to keep it private at: terrylr@interaccess.com If you wish to discuss this in public, e-mail your response to: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov If you wish to unsubscribe to this list or make other comments, e-mail to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov I have attached my 2 cents to the end of this message. -Greg ------------- >From terrylr@interaccess.com Tue Sep 24 19:49:34 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:00:56 -0500 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder) Subject: wood texture Hello Fellow Radiance users; I have a few questions: Question 1. Is there anyone out there who is able to explain how to use woodtex.cal? Question 2. While helping my daughter solve a TrueSpace2 problem, I noticed that Caligari had the file format sepcifications online. My daughter has asked me to write her a truespace2 to radiance translator. Is anyone else out there using truespace2 to model Radaince scenes? Wrting software for my daughter is one matter, writing software for the "masses" is a different matter. Question 3. Would anyone know who wrote the fuzztile.oct file in the texture directory? Would anyone know if the "rad" file is available for viewing? Question 4. My daughter, a Graphics Arts major, would like Lightwave for Christmas. ;-) What arguments should I use to convince her that Radiance is just as good if not better than Lightwave? Thank you in advance for any and all help. Terry L. Ridder Blue Danube Software "We don't write software, we compose it." And every hour of every day I 'm learning more the more I learn, the less I know about before the less I know, the more I want to look around digging deep for clues on higher ground. -- Higher Ground-- UB40 ------------- [The following is from Greg Ward]: 1) The woodtex.cal file was written long ago, and intended for generating a woodgrain texture (roughness) on a surface, as opposed to a pattern, which may be generated by woodpat.cal. To apply the texture along the x-axis, use: void texfunc woodtextureX 4 xgrain_dx xgrain_dy xgrain_dz woodtex.cal 0 1 0.5 The roughness value (0.5 above) can be varied up or down to get more or less texture, and the size of the woodgrain can be varied by adding a scaling factor (-s factor) to the string arguments. For a woodgrain pattern, use woodpat.cal like so: void brightfunc woodpatX 2 xgrain woodpat.cal 0 1 0.5 Again, the magnitude (variation) of the pattern can be changed from 0.5, and the grain size varied with a scaling factor. A pattern may also be combined with a texture by stringing the primitives together, i.e. using the first as the modifier for the next. 3) Since I'm the only one likely to know this, I should say that Isaac Kuo is the author of the tennis ball fuzz. Assuming he won't mind, I have put his code in the file /xfer/tennis.tar.Z on hobbes.lbl.gov for anyone who is interested to pick up. It unpacks to a directory, where a simple make command should rebuild fuzztile and the tennis ball. I was very impressed by this high school student's work, and I presume he has gone on to much bigger and better things.... -Greg From greg Thu Sep 26 10:12:30 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 09:45:34 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc.list Subject: Two more Radiance postings Status: R Here are two more postings to the Radiance discussion group. Again, reply to the individual authors if you want to keep it private, or write to radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov to join in the community discussion. Unsubscribe messages should go to radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov -Greg ------------ >From paulg@teleport.com Thu Sep 26 00:07:47 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:12:38 -800 Subject: Self Introduction w/questions Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO Hi folks, I was wanting to find out what usenet groups people on this list frequent. I am also working on bringing up a cad/cam package (sced) to generate my initial pictures. I understand that sced has a conversion capability for Radiance. Also, does anyone on this list use Linux besides myself? Thanks for your comments and responses. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. >From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Thu Sep 26 01:15:55 1996 Return-Path: Sender: jean@fnet.fr Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:17:40 +0200 From: Jean Brange Organization: ETNA To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: wood texture and other Radiance questions Status: RO Hi Terry and others... About Radiance vs other high end rendering packages. I want to say that IMHO Radiance as a simple unix bunch of application gives you much more power for producing your work. IE: I took me one night to implement an animation module in a CAD software (ARRIS) which would produce all the datas for rpict and pinterp. Then another night (while computing the first path on a sparc serevr) to implement a unix dispatcher which execute a single batch file on any numbers of machine in a network: result: computing of the same path on 6 IPX and a sparc5 was faster than on a 4 processors Sparcserver (not optimized for rpict :( We used this to produce a 3 minutes video film in two days and three nights at 3 people. (we didn't sleep much!). Bt we are sure that this was really much much ,much faster than using Integra for the same job (we estimate to 2 weeks the computing time needed with integra) the fact that radiance is free software is also very important: you can have as many concurent process of rpict running on as many machines you can get at the same time for the same cost: free! Hope this will convince your daughter. Jean. From stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net Thu Sep 26 11:38:14 1996 Return-Path: Reply-To: Stephen Benson To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Cc: terrylr@interaccess.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:11:45 Subject: Re: wood texture and other Radiance questions From: Stephen Benson Status: RO >If you wish to discuss this in public, e-mail your response to: > > radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov > I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating a summary of any tips/discussion. >Question 4. >My daughter, a Graphics Arts major, would like Lightwave for Christmas. ;-) >What arguments should I use to convince her that Radiance is just as good >if not better than Lightwave? > None really. They have different aims, advantages and costs (and OSs). If she wants to get into a fast productive industry-standard(ish) environment, and for a reasonable price, get LW. Then translate some scenes to Radiance as you wish, for that distributed/global RT etc, and to really learn about what's going on. And about unix (for the day Alias or SoftImahge floats into view). IMHO, of course. -- stephen benson stephenb@scribendum.win-uk.net http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~2i/ __________________________________________________________________________ 3D/CG/DV/Anim/Quake links: http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~2i/2i_hotlist_toc.htm From BOSHEA@SCUACC.SCU.EDU Fri Sep 27 00:12:48 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:14:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Subject: Linux and Radiance To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov X-Vms-To: IN%"greg@hobbes.lbl.gov" X-Vms-Cc: BOSHEA Status: RO Hi. This is in response to your question about if anybody else uses Linux besides yourself. I love Linux. I've been using it for a few months now (I'm totally MicroSoft-free!) and have installed Radiance. The only problem is that I find the code for Radiance kind of cryptic. Have you ever used PovRay? The code is a lot like C (in appearance, anyway) and is just more intuitive (but I hear not as flexible). Since I am less comfortable with Radiance, I don't have a great deal of experience with it. Do you have any ideas about how to become more familiar with it? I have even tried trad (the Tk interface for X11) but with little success. It seems to require that you already have written the source file for Radiance to use trad. Maybe I just havn't given it enough time. I really don't know. Anyhow, thanks. -brian o'shea From greg Sat Sep 28 09:14:39 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 08:50:20 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc.list Subject: more Radiance discussion Status: R >From paulg@teleport.com Sat Sep 28 01:04:16 1996 Return-Path: Resent-Message-Id: <199609280804.BAA20521@desiree.teleport.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is Resent-From: "Paul Garceau" Resent-To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:09:03 -800 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: list@raydisc.lbl.gov Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:02:44 -800 Subject: Re: Radiance under Linux Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO On 27 Sep 96 at 9:56, the Illustrious Gregory J. Ward forwarded the following: > >From BOSHEA@SCUACC.SCU.EDU Fri Sep 27 00:12:48 1996 > Hi. > > This is in response to your question about if anybody else > uses Linux besides yourself. I love Linux. I've been using > it for a few months now (I'm totally MicroSoft-free!) and > have installed Radiance. The only problem is that I find > the code for Radiance kind of cryptic. Have you ever used > PovRay? Yes, my first ray traceing was done with POV2.2 on a 486sx/33. I initially created the file using an isometric modelling tool and then had it exported for POV2.2. It ran wonderfully, albeit slowly. I've heard that most people also have a cad/cam 3d modeller of some sort. They create their pictures there and then convert them to Radiance code using one of the many conversion binaries that are available for Radiance. SCED is a Linux based X-Windows 3d cad modeller. I recently downloaded that and it is already to go under X-Windows. >The code is a lot like C (in appearance, anyway) > and is just more intuitive (but I hear not as flexible). Is that for POVRay or Radiance? I know that Radiance is being used quite a bit all over the world. I'm sure there are a number of organizations that use it outside of the websites referenced from the Radiance home page. Two colleges right here in this state are using it for various things from architectural design to interior design. > Since I am less comfortable with Radiance, I don't have a > great deal of experience with it. Do you have any ideas > about how to become more familiar with it? A couple of suggestions: a) Use Radiance for your raytraceing...the best way to understand a ray tracer is to talk with it and spend time with it. Those that have spent the most time with something like Radiance will be more comfortable with it than others. b) Never underestimate the power of play. I know that I will spend a great deal of time getting familiar with Radiance, and I know I will have a lot of fun just playing with it. The tutorial that comes with the latest distribution is very helpful to read. Once you've read it (or while you're reading it) you can generate the image Greg suggests and guides your through. This will give you a good idea of what Radiance can really do. Radiance, I believe, is far more powerful than POVray and thus it has a right to be a bit more complex, at least imho. That to me seems to be the trade-off. More power usually means more complexity. With Radiances ability to intimately control light sources and ambience values it seems only logical that it might be more complex. What scripts I have written seem to be fairly straight-forward (the tutorial for instance) in terms of functionality and understanding of what Radiance is doing at any given time. I haven't taken the time yet to look through the manual that comes with Radiance. Even so, given the style of writing in the tutorial, I am already impressed by Gregs ability to be clear and concise without losing his sense of people. I hope this helps. Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. >From paulg@teleport.com Sat Sep 28 01:14:45 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:19:43 -800 Subject: Radiance Applications Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO Hi folks, Maybe it's normal, but this discussion group seems to be quite quiet. I know that Radiance is initially designed for Unix systems. I was wondering what applications people use Radiance for. I know there are a lot of Radiance web sites, both noted and yet unknown. Some of them have used Radiance for setting up theatre lighting, building lighting, work-place lighting and architectural work. My own interest lies with buildings and environmental influences. I also am partial to the more artistic aspects such as "spheres in space", or some other artistic approach to ray-traceing (I've noted some of these sites are listed as well on the Radiance home page). Can anyone tell me what they use Radiance for (type of raytraceing)? Thanks folks, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. From greg Tue Oct 1 13:07:55 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 12:48:40 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: delayed Radiance discussion group mail Status: R Here is some more discussion may from Terry Ridder. I blew it when I first sent this out, which caused some delay. See the end of this message for my comments and the address to write to subscribe or unsubscribe. ------------ >From terrylr@interaccess.com Mon Sep 30 08:07:33 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:19:01 -0500 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder) Subject: Radiance and LInux Cc: paulg@teleport.com Status: RO Hello Group; I have Linux running on 4 machines. I love Linux. With two daughters in college, and into graphics arts, I cannot afford all the time of supporting Win95, and the expense of WinNT. They are starting to see the benefits of using Linux and Radiance. Terry L. Ridder >From terrylr@interaccess.com Mon Sep 30 08:07:45 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:19:16 -0500 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder) Subject: Oconv question Status: RO Hello Group; Does anyone on the list have a "rule-of-thumb" concerning the time it takes oconv to create the "*.oct" files. Scene complex surely comes into the time involved, but what other factors come into to play. Also what is the expected increase in time when the '-f' (freeze) option is used? The reason I ask, is that based on the Fuzzmaker program, I have written a program to generate a field of grass. Oconv has been running nearly three days, and shows no signs to being done anytime soon. Terry L. Ridder ----------------------------------- [Comments from the moderator (Greg Ward)]: If oconv has been running a few days, you can bet something is wrong. In general, the time to run oconv should be proportional to the number of surfaces, and the -f option should have no effect. Instances are harder to incorporate than normal surfaces, however, because they represent volumes in the scene. In the case of a field of grass (or any large, repetitive, complex environment), it often works best to create a hierarchy of instances. For example, a small patch of grass would be put into one octree (perhaps a few hundred to a thousand surfaces). This patch would then be repeated a few dozen times as instances in a larger octree, which would in turn be repeated to make a field of grass or perhaps even a subfield for another iteration. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Tue Oct 1 13:52:51 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 13:28:04 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: more Radiance discussion Status: R >From paulg@teleport.com Mon Sep 30 15:34:42 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:39:44 -800 Subject: Re: Radiance and LInux Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO Hi Terry, It's good to hear someone else uses Radiance under Linux. I know of three others, including myself, who use, or are in the process of installing, Radiance on a Linux box. Initially I chose to go through the Radiance tutorial and downloaded SCED for my later 3d modelling and CAD work. Apparently, SCED comes with an animation scripting language (Elk) if you wish to download it. I hope to be able to generate the images for a game environment (buildings, cities, etc.) ray-trace them, using Radiance, convert the images and then animate the images for interactive use in the game itself. I haven't thought much beyond that since I am still working on the world environment, one that includes both diurnal and lunar cycles. When I can fly through the world is when I'll feel ready to build the interactive engine itself. In the meantime I'll begin to build the world using Radiance. I have chosen Radiance because it is able to handle variances in light levels and textures better than just about any other ray-tracer I've seen or used (including POVRay). One thing I have noticed is that Linux, running Radiance under X-Windows (640x480 I believe), was able to render a small red sphere in a fraction of the time that POVRay would complete a similar sized 24-bit .tga sphere using 320x240 resolution under MS-DOS 6.22. If anyone is still running with a slower processor (486/33sx -- 8Meg), the differences between POVRay, under MS-DOS 6.22, and Radiance becomes readily apparent. I can't wait to upgrade to a Cyrix 6x86/200 motherboard. On 30 Sep 96 at 10:19, the Illustrious Terry L. Ridder wrote: > Hello Group; > > I have Linux running on 4 machines. I love Linux. > With two daughters in college, and into graphics arts, I cannot > afford all the time of supporting Win95, and the expense of WinNT. > They are starting to see the benefits of using Linux and Radiance. I can relate to this from a monetary reference as I too am going to college and must remain on a tight budget. I agree that Win95 and WinNT are, indeed, too expensive in terms of time and resources to upgrade to at this point-in-time. In either case, it is less stressful (from a monetary as well as a hardware/software standpoint) to simply upgrade the motherboard then to try and get Win95 or WinNT for the MS-DOS side of this box. Most recently, my novice attempts to render under Radiance have run into what appears to be vp (view-point) limitations. That is, the size of the image trying to be rendered seems to be greater than the size of what the ray-tracing camera can actually see, thus causing an "octree truncation" error. On initial rendering, I was able to create a nice sphere. When I added a gray room, the background turned gray, but there was no perspective of the "room" itself due to a lack of visible wall joints. Next, I attempted to add a chrome rod below the sphere and blue box beneath the rod (pedestal), and ran into the "octree truncated" error. Anyone have any ideas or understanding of why this "octree truncated" error occurs? Any comments or constructive criticism would be appreciated. Thank you. Paul G. Playing finger-jibe with my Linux... ---------------------------------- From the moderator (Greg Ward); The "truncated octree" error occurs when the end of the octree file was cut off, usually due to a disk space limitation or file write error. It cannot be caused by any limitation or error within Radiance itself. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct 2 00:50:31 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:53:32 -800 Subject: Re: more Radiance discussion Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: R On 1 Oct 96 at 13:28, the Illustrious Gregory J. Ward wrote: (edit)...truncated octree error > ---------------------------------- From the moderator (Greg Ward); > > The "truncated octree" error occurs when the end of the octree file was > cut off, usually due to a disk space limitation or file write error. It > cannot be caused by any limitation or error within Radiance itself. Thanks Greg. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. From greg Wed Oct 2 10:58:48 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 10:32:54 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: more Radiance discussion Status: R Please don't use the "reply" command -- send explicitly to the authors or write to "radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov" if you want your message to go to the whole group. Unsubscribe requests should go to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov ------------------ >From terrylr@interaccess.com Wed Oct 2 00:34:36 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:45:21 -0500 To: RAYDREAM-L@cornell.edu, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder) Subject: Modeller Question Status: RO Hello Group; A quick question, has anyone here any experience with the Design Workshop Modeller from Artifice? Please refer to if you need a reference for what I am talking about. The reason I ask, is that this maybe a solution to my one daughter's design class problem. She would be able to model her designs and save the files as Radiance files. FTP the files to home, and render them here, under Linux and Radiance. Pickup the result when I send her e-mail that the rendering is done. Terry L. Ridder Blue Danube Software "We don't write software, we compose it." And every hour of every day I 'm learning more the more I learn, the less I know about before the less I know, the more I want to look around digging deep for clues on higher ground. -- Higher Ground-- UB40 >From terrylr@interaccess.com Wed Oct 2 00:34:38 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:45:26 -0500 To: RAYDREAM-L@cornell.edu, radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder) Subject: The ideal rendering machine. Status: RO Hello Group; Checkout this Web Page for the fast motherboard on the planet. I talked with the company today, and the system that Microway puts this motherboard in came in second only to a Cray Y-MP. 500MHZ Dec Alpha Chip, 1 GigaFlops System comes with WindowsNT & LInux. I wonder just how just this puppy would render 3D? If you would settle for less speed, say 300MHZ, the system is below $6K USD and that is with 64MB's of RAM, 1MB Pipeline cache, etc.... Yes, Christmas is less than 3 months away, now where did I put that e-mail address for the North Pole? Terry L. Ridder Blue Danube Software >From g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Wed Oct 2 03:00:21 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:00:12 +1200 (NZT) From: Greg Elisara To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Paul Bourkes's rad to qtvr source Status: RO Hi all, Does anyone have the original source code the Paul Bourke produced to convert radiance pic files to qtvr files. It seems to have disappeared of the face of our ftp server. Paul, if you're out there, can you clarify whether it is still available or not. On a totally different matter, it's nice to see Linux users out there taking advantage of both Radiance and linux. I've used both a great deal over the last couple of years with much pleasure. Regards, Greg. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Greg Elisara g.elisara@auckland.ac.nz Dept of Architecture, University of Auckland, New Zealand. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------ From the moderator (Greg Ward): You can also use the cylindrical view type in Radiance: view= qtvr -vtc -vh 360 -vv 88 # other view options In QuickTime VR, your view direction should be horizontal (i.e., perpendicular to the view up vector) and will point behind your eventual default orientation. Ideally, you would generate a final image size of 2496x768: RESOLUTION= 2496 768 0 # The final 0 means exact You then convert the result to pict format using "ra_pict -g 1.8" and apply the free QuickTime VR converter available from Apple's web site: http://quicktime.apple.com/sw/sw.html -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Wed Oct 2 18:08:13 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 17:45:05 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: more Radiance discussion from Paul Garceau Status: R I have put these together so as to minimize the number of separate postings to the discussion list... >From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct 2 15:36:59 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:38:32 -800 Subject: Re: more Radiance discussion Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Cc: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Priority: normal Status: RO Hi folks, It's good to know that I'm not in a vacuum over here. One of the reasons I like these sorts of discussion groups is _because_ it reminds me that I am _not_ in a vacuum here. What do other people think of this discussion group? Is this the appropriate place to ask such questions? I ask more from a sense of curiosity and a desire to serve than I ask from any other place. After spending hours of time working on this or that modification, it is good to be able to discuss whatever errors may have come up, if any. It's just as good to be able to simply wave in someones general direction. The most recent thing has been, for me, an octree truncated error. I'm fairly certain it's not being caused by a lack of disk space (unless a single octree file with a max of about 2 commands and appx 7 definitions -- light and primitive, takes up more than 54M of disk ). This leads me to one conclusion since Greg assures me it's not being caused by Radiance; Sced is responsible for the octree error. Can anyone confirm or discount this? I need to track this down since I can't render until I eliminate such errors and their logical causes, even if it means installing the latest stable Linux kernel (2.0.21). I am, as noted earlier, using Radiance under Linux (2.0.0) on an 8Meg 486sx/33 (soon to be Cyrix 6x86/200). I hope things are going well for everyone. Thanks for your response and/or constructive comments. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. >From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct 2 15:50:37 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:55:39 -800 Subject: Animation w/Radiance Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO Hi folks, Currently I am using SCED to generate any animation scripts that I need for my models being rendered under Radiance. This is currently being accomplished through the use of a scripting language known as "Elk" that is available for Sced. Does anyone know how to animate Radiance files via Radiance itself? Granted, Radiance, in its initial form as far as I can remember, was not designed for animation. Recently, Greg Ward mentioned that QT movies can be generated from Radiance. Is this capability part of the initial Radiance distributions' capabilities or do I need to download some special application to accomplish this? Thanks for your comments. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. >From paulg@teleport.com Wed Oct 2 15:58:39 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 16:03:41 -800 Subject: Radiance and VRML Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO Hi Group, I thought about including these questions in an earlier posting then decided that I would start a separate "thread". In the near future I will be starting to generate VRML (Virtual Reality Modelling Language). I would like to use Radiance to generate the initial models (VRM). However, a couple of questions came up: Are there any Radiance users here that participate in the generation of VRML (Virtual Reality Modelling Language)? If so, do you render under Radiance and then convert to a VRML or do you generate the VRM (Virtual Reality Model) first and then convert the VRM to Radiance? Thanks for your responses. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. -------------------------------------- From the moderator (Greg Ward): Actually, I apologize for my earlier statement about truncated octrees. I just checked, and it appears that this error can be the result of any number of errors in the scene file which might cause oconv to abort. You should have seen some error message somewhere along the way, however. The latest version of Radiance (3.0) has a program called "ranimate" to aid in generating animated sequences. However, it mostly takes care of the bookeeping and not the view path generation or scene animation. For these tasks, you are still on your own. For QuickTimeVR, which is different from QuickTime, you need only Radiance 3.0 and the Apple FilmMaker thing I mentioned in the last posting. Quicktime movies require that you generate a sequence of frames and convert them, and for this you may need Paul Bourke's software. His new web site is: http://bourke.gen.nz/paul.html -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Wed Oct 2 21:16:39 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 20:52:35 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: question about Radiance functions Status: R Some of these questions seem like they would be better addressed to just me, and I could summarize the answers as I usually do in the Radiance Digest. >From dxs@diac.com Wed Oct 2 20:36:29 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 21:32 MDT From: dxs@november.diac.com To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: R i am using the rtrace program to produce illuminance information. i did some profiling and noticed that about 25 % of the time was spent in argument, efunc and eargument functions. since i am not producing new functions, would it be very difficult to rewrite the expressions that get compiled at the beginning of rtrace in c to avoid the overhead of this interpretation? also, currently all my surfaces are grey. is it possible to easily turn off color calculations to speed things up? thanks, dan stanger dan.stanger@internut.com ------------------------------------------------ Answer from Greg Ward: Compiling and linking in functions is rather tricky, and the speed gain would be half the 25% used by your scene currently. (I should point out for others who haven't profiled anything that if you don't use the procedural language in your scene descriptions, it doesn't cost you anything. The amount of time spent in evaluating the functional language varies with the complexity and frequency of function use.) You can do it if your determined, however, by adding to the linked functions (thus extending the functional language library) in the initialization code of the getfunc() call in src/rt/func.c. Taking out color calculations would be exceedingly difficult and the savings would be hardly noticeable. I definitely don't recommend it. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ P.S. I forgot to mention in my last attachment that you can convert from Radiance to VRML by combining the rad2mgf and mgf2inv translators. From greg Thu Oct 3 09:41:52 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 96 09:16:23 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: web page proposal from Terry Ridder Status: R >From terrylr@interaccess.com Wed Oct 2 23:04:10 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:15:52 -0500 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: terrylr@interaccess.com (Terry L. Ridder) Subject: Announcement of Great Joy, (well sort of) Status: RO Hello Group; After being delayed by a few minor events earlier in the year, you know floods, getting hit by lightning twice in the same week, tornado , we are now our own Internet Service Provider. (And they all shout Huh???) The point of this posting is to let all you rendering-your-little-hearts-out Radiance users, know of the following: 1. Offsite rendering should be up and running shortly. We have recovered for the most part from the floods, and lightning strikes. The house is almost back together, well sort of almost back together. 2. I would like to plan on a Radiance Stravin' Artist Gallery to be hosted by me for free. I would like to hear from each and everyone of you about the format, gallery divisions, etc. We have the choice of managing this by committee or anarchy, I personally vote for anarchy. 3. I would also like to plan on a form of classified ads for list members and job postings, or talent (leaves me out) wanted. This needs to be somewhat organized. So I am looking for a few proud willing volunteers. 3a. Along the same line, the holidays are coming up, and it would be "interesting" to have a Halloween Page, A Reformation Day Page, (remember your history, Halloween, and Reformation Day are on the same day.), Thankgiving Day, Christmas, Advent. Please keep in mind that this is a "Family" Starvin' Artist Web Page Collection. Children maybe watching. 4. There are many more "goodies" coming in the future weeks, on which I will keep you posted. Well that is about all folks. Now remember: Go out there and commit random acts of senseless KINDNESS. ;-) All right, I will go back to my office, and play, I mean program. Terry L. Ridder Blue Danube Software "We don't write software, we compose it." And every hour of every day I 'm learning more the more I learn, the less I know about before the less I know, the more I want to look around digging deep for clues on higher ground. -- Higher Ground-- UB40 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From lwright@orednet.org Mon Oct 7 21:54:54 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 21:54:03 -0700 To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) From: lwright@orednet.org (Larry Wright) Subject: Re: Subscription Status: R Greg, Sorry for the lack of info. I would like a subscription to both lists. Thanks lwright@orednet.org >Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, >or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to >the announcement list only, or to both lists. > >-Greg From chas@innernet.com Thu Oct 10 02:17:23 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:39:38 -0700 To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov From: chas@innernet.com (Charles Ehrlich) Subject: Re: more Radiance discussion Status: R Re: Design Workshop and Radiance. When I spoke with someone at Artifice about a year ago, they made the distinct disclaimer that their Radiance export utility had a few bugs. In particular, it was necessary to edit the materials to get a working model. This is not a big limitiation because all translators I know of require editing of materials. If economy is your first priority, does a MS-DOS version of Radiance v2.3 as part of the ADELINE package fit your budget at $450.00? Please check out the ADELINE WWW page at: http://radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/home.html I use the ADELINE version of Radiance frequently when I'm creating 3D models with AutoCAD for Windows. I export my 3D data directly from AutoCAD using trad (a free lisp utility at the hobbes.lbl.gov ftp site) or its close cousin called torad (a $50.00 ADS-C utility available at http://www.innernet.com/radiance/home.html). << Warning, that is a plug.>> Torad creates a .RIF file and materials that match AutoCAD's basic 256 color pallette (not so nice) such that the scene can be immediately rendered from within a MS-DOS shell with one command: rad -o vga model.rif. After editing the materials and adding a few nice views to the .RIF file, you can complete full resolution renderings completely on the MS-DOS platform. ADELINE has even been run on a PowerMac with SoftWindows, but I don't recommend this approach. A better solution for Radiance on the Mac is the MachTen Operating system (www.tennon.com) with the latest Unix version 3.0 of Radiance. Re: Linux I use Radiance on Linux on a daily basis. I have set up eight separate Linux boxes over the past three years. Besides the fact that Linux always takes me longer than I expect to get running, I am quite pleased with the Linux-Radiance match. Re: Quicktime VR The new cylindrical view option (rpict -vtc) of Radiance V2.5 or above is quite a nifty feature! This is not part of ADELINE 2.0, unfortunately. -Chas Charles Ehrlich Principal, Space & Light From artlite@iafrica.com Thu Oct 10 15:50:45 1996 Return-Path: From: artlite@iafrica.com (Gavin Donaldson-Selby) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Microstation port to Linux. Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:25:47 -0200 Lines: 10 Status: RO >From e-mail I've had with the programmer doing the port I believe that Microstation for Linux (Educational package) will be available by the end of the year. No more dual-boot! Now if someone could write a radout/torad equivalent ... GH Donaldson-Selby Dept. Entertainment Technology Technikon Natal. From STEINERWESTLING@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 16 17:42:58 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:44:29 -0400 From: Robert Westling Organization: steinerwestling To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance Discussion Group Status: R We would like to subscribe to the mailing list. Thanks. From russ602@pn.itnet.it Thu Oct 17 11:31:17 1996 Return-Path: From: Giampaolo Russo Reply-To: russ602@IT.net To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 20:27:03 +0100 Organization: DragonBall Finder Subject: SUBSCRIBE Status: R From greg Fri Oct 18 10:06:36 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 09:43:14 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: New Radiance Web site Status: R I shall link this in to the main Radiance page momentarily.... >From gm@hl-technik.de Fri Oct 18 07:43:46 1996 Return-Path: From: "Georg Mischler" To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:44:00 -0100 Subject: new web site X-Gateway: iGate, (GroupWise) vers 4.04o - 1082 Status: RO Hi Greg, finally my web site is reachable under its proper name! thanks for forwarding to the discussion list -Georg ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- Announcement: The Greatest text only radiance related web site you've ever seen! ;) http://www.schorsch.com/autocad/radiance.html This is the home of the "Autocad to Radiance Interface Project", featuring the newest information about: torad - software (autolisp sources) - manuals - FAQs radout - software (very soon - C sources for unix) ddrad - software (as soon as I get it stable enough) - manuals - project status information - and more. As allways (and like the project itself), this site is constantly under construction. I will try to keep the information as up to date as possible. I recommend anyone to check the page /autocad/ddr/future.html from time to time. This page contains a table of all features of ddrad that I consider worth considering, and some status information about each of them. If you have any ideas, solutions and other suggestions, let me know! Shortly some information here that didn't make it to the web yet: There is a (now former) student in Belguim named Benjamin Geebelen, who did a reimplementation of the torad based ddrad. He realised many of the advanced that are top on my to-do list. So, when my negotiations with him about swapping code will be successful, then the final release of the radout based ddrad will be easier to accomplish and more complete than I originally thought! Of course the final release will be announced here - and on my web site. On other branches of the server you will find radiance unrelated information like: - Autocad 3d modelling utilities - Autocad programming utilities for unix - topol - Export autocad geometry to the CLRview visualisation tool. - Some links I like and support. - Maybe soon some Go (Baduk) related stuff. Have Fun! -Georg -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Georg Mischler -- schorsch@www.schorsch.com -- http://www.schorsch.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From valois@cim.mcgill.ca Fri Oct 18 12:16:04 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:16:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Valois Jean-Sebastien To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe Status: R Please subscribe me: valois@cim.mcgill.ca ################################################# Hi everyone, Is there is a way to apply a texture map on a glow source without using Dx, Dy and Dz ? I know on a regular surface we can use Px, Py, and Pz (which are independent of the view direction) to apply the texture map but those parmeters are useless on a glow as I can see. Thank you. Jean-Sebastien Valois ############################################### From jib@worldnet.fr Tue Oct 22 01:23:42 1996 Return-Path: Sender: jean@fnet.fr Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:25:38 +0100 From: Jean Brange Organization: ETNA To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: change of adress Status: R unsubscribe raydisc jib@worldnet.fr subscribe raydisc jean@aleph.afuu.fr From greg Mon Nov 4 11:19:34 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 10:54:11 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance question about source photometry Cc: \ Status: R This is from Erwin Zierler (my comments at the end): >From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Mon Nov 4 04:50:39 1996 Return-Path: From: Erwin Zierler Subject: light sources To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:45:30 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Hello Radiance experts, recently I have read quite a lot about lighting, light sources, IES and other 'standards', I browsed the entire LBL webpages, worked myself through the libraries of the Radiance distribution and the digest archives and so on. The reason for this effort is that I want to render an indoor scene with several artificial light sources (from a simple 100 watt lightbulb to several different low-voltage halogen and metal-oxide lamps). Now here comes the question(s): 1. Is there a 'rule of thumb' for creating simple lightbulbs that produce reasonable output. Of course I could just use something like: void light bright 0 0 3 r g b and then apply it to a sphere or other geometry. But how do I get the right values for r,g,b and which parameters of the lightbulb have an influence on these values? The manual says: light is defined simply as a RGB radiance value (watts/steradian/m2). Ok, I got watts, and I can calculate the m2 (if my assumption is right that this is the total 'glowing' area of my luminaire), but how do I get the right value for steradian? Or can anyone recommend some literature where I can educate myself a bit better about this subject? :-) 2. Trying to understand the IES description files and producing a few example files I realized that this is not really very helpful if you have a given fixture and luminaires. Also I'm pretty sure that lighting manufacturers in Europe won't be able to give me IES descriptions of their products, so I'm a bit stuck. It's not a problem to model the geometry but when it comes to creating the proper materials it gets quite tricky if you want to be 'as close as possible' to real-world conditions. Any advice on how to go about this would be really helpful. 3. Many manufacturers/resellers supply the lumen for their products but I'm not sure how this influences my material description, I can just guess that the higher the lumen the brighter the light? Anyway, I guess what I really need is a description in 'plain English' :) I hoped I could figure all this out myself but after reading so many documents and still not understanding I thought I better ask the experts. Thanks alot in advance for any help, Erwin -- Erwin Zierler ! email: erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at University of Innsbruck ! voice: +43 (0)663-9156926 Austria ! WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ ------------------------------- There is a program called "lampcolor" that will do what you want for simple (diffuse) light sources. For photometric distributions, the process is a little bit tricky, and you have to create a custom data file from the manufacturer's distribution, but it can be done. I have put a Macintosh PICT file in the /pub/doc directory of the anonymous ftp account on hobbes.lbl.gov that gives a simple example of how this is done. ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/doc/phot.pict -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Mon Nov 4 12:40:31 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 12:15:17 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance and MicroStation Status: R >From elisara@ihug.co.nz Mon Nov 4 12:07:06 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: elisara@ihug.co.nz To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:03:25 +0000 Subject: MicroStation geometry into Radiance Priority: normal Status: R Hi all, has anyone been able to get MicroStation geometry into Radiance reliably and consistantly? Greg Elisara. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Mon Nov 4 19:25:22 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 18:59:38 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance quick reference Status: R >From paulg@teleport.com Mon Nov 4 17:26:46 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:31:44 -800 Subject: Radiance Quick-Reference/Index Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO Hi folks, I would very much like to start generating ray-traced designs for radiance. I have done a couple, but there seems to be no quick referencing scheme available so that I could look up a given instruction and then cross-reference to whatever aspects I have questions about (format/syntax/display). I am using ghostview to look at the manual, but it is difficult at best to find the proper pages/syntax references and some sort of explanation of the radiance commands that is readily accessible without spending a great deal of time and energy on printing the manual itself under Unix/Unix-like systems. I have also found it difficult to know where and how to place my cameras and lights to get the view that I want to see. As an example...I want to ray trace, using radiance, a tryptych. The tryptych is basically nine spheres arrayed in the form of a equilateral triangle. I want to reflect the equilateral triangle in a circular or oval "pool" of some sort. Each of the nine spheres need to be different colors and I must be able to set them up prior to converting them into a Radiance image. I am using something called "sced" for the initial design of the image. "Sced" seems quite able to convert to Radiance. However, I don't seem to have enough information to generate the (formerly) sced image in a (converted) Radiance form. Can anyone offer suggestions as to what would be a good cad package to make the initial image in and then to convert it to Radiance? For all intents and purposes I am running a Unix-like OS (Linux) that, as far as I know is capable of handling System-V files if necessary (though I would rather not add System-V on this OS) and is compatible with most, if not all, pure Unix system files. What I would like to do is design the initial image (in wireframe, with the possibility of a quick render) and then take the image, as I see it on my screen, and then convert it to Radiance. I am willing to drop Sced all together if it would make it easier for me to generate stuff specifically for conversions to Radiance. Ultimately, I expect to be using these tools to generate story boards (again any suggestions for story board generators would be appreciated) for 3d computer games. With the ability that Radiance has to modify light and influence it, it stands as an excellent tool for generating individual scenes. Thanks everyone for your input. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. --------------------------- The Radiance man pages and reference manual are available online from the Radiance web site (http://radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/HOME.html) in HTML, which can be a little easier to peruse than the distributed versions. Also, we are working on a book with Wiley and Sons, due out in Summer. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jon@esru.strath.ac.uk Tue Nov 5 03:26:20 1996 Return-Path: From: jon@esru.strath.ac.uk (Jon Hand) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:27:40 +0000 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: info on Sced Status: RO I have been seeing references to Sced in postings. Is there a synposis of its functionality/source that someone could post me? Regards, Jon Hand Energy Systems Research Unit Glasgow, Scotland jon@esru.strath.ac.uk From greg Tue Nov 5 13:13:12 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 12:47:52 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance editor development advice Status: R Dear Radiance Discussion Group Members, This is an e-mail forwarded from Christoph Hoegl, who is interested in developing a scene editor for Radiance. I suggested that we forward this to the group, and that anyone interested in helping with advice or warnings or comments along the lines of "use the such-and-such editor -- it works great" might chime in. Also, please do write to Christoph and/or me so we can start a little subgroup on this if there is enough interest. -Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------- I want to write a platformindependant modeller (platformindependant for unix-users:-) ) and need some hints on what would be nice to have since it should be a very useable thing in the end (currently i work with sced under Linux but it is not very nice if you want to do things very comfortable (Autocad is no solution either)) My idea was to write something that is able to use all of the fine features Radiance provides with few as possible hacking. All current modellers don't support (be it Autocad or sced or something else) nice translations into Radiance and the converters provided all loose half the information given (except TRAD:-) ) To make it short i want to write an app which is like trad but with a integrated wireframe-editor to be able to create scenes more easily (I'm currently sick of calculating objects to get a clue of what they look like and then having them converted to objects named after some star in an unknown galaxy without any idea how to identify them if there are more than 30 objects) So my wish is that you provide a little list with things you want to have included which would make even more pleasant to work with Radiance (Perhaps a Preview of ambient lights, an easy interface to move chairs in a room or something to dim the lights in a quick preview until it's worth to render it in 4096x1024 pixels highquality (which is still an issue of time), an extensible interface to the generators) Perhaps you know of others which have started or are planning to do similar things (i'm flexible in choosing a programming laguage to code it with) Thanks in advance, Christoph Christoph Hoegl / darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com / (Darkwing@berkeley.edu) Siedlungsstr. 18 93128 Regenstauf Germany Fax:+49 940270611 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From thor@promarkone.com Tue Nov 5 14:59:35 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 16:59:24 CST From: thor@promarkone.com (Jon Thorson - Systems Overlord) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: address change Status: R Could you please change the my email address from thor@promarkone.com to rock@minot.com Thanks. From greg Thu Nov 7 13:08:38 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 12:28:24 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: question about BRDF's Status: R [I added my 2 cents at the end. -G] >From tarhan@piranha.cis.upenn.edu Thu Nov 7 09:58:49 1996 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:58:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:58:23 -0500 (EST) From: "I. Inanc Tarhan" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Reflection models Status: RO Dear Radiance users, I have just started using Radiance and I am planning to use it to test physically-valid light reflection models and eventually compare simple Radiance scenes with the real ones. I was wondering what is the best way of describing a surface where the distribution of the diffusely scattered light is non-Lambertian (Let's say the functional form is known). Can this be done by using an auxiliary file in connection with Transfunc, BRTDfunc etc. Or will it be necessary to modify some parts of the main code? Another question is about polarization: how long will it take to modify Radiance so that it can also keep track of polarization? Is there enough interest in doing this (I am afraid the answer will be no!) ? Thanks for your help! ================================================================== I. Inanc Tarhan GRASP Laboratory Tel: (215) 898-9247 University of Pennsylvania Fax: (215) 573-2048 Suite 300C, 3401 Walnut Street Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 ================================================================= +++++++++++++++++++++++ If you have a functional form for the directional-diffuse part, you can use BRTDfunc to describe it. However, the directional-diffuse interactions between surfaces (other than light sources) will be approximated as diffuse. Only for the predefined types (plastic, metal, etc.) is the directional-diffuse (soft specular) computed correctly from Monte Carlo samples, since this can be done efficiently. If you have some way to generate MC samples yourself, then you can implement this as a new material function in C and link it into the software. If you are working from data, the plasdata and metdata types may work for you, but again, directional-diffuse components will be approximated as diffuse for the purposes of computing multiple surface interreflections. Only light source highlights will really show up your function. As for adding light polarization, I have considered the effort to do this myself, and it seems rather high. In particular, I am not sure how I would get the data needed to even compute the correct polarization of surface reflections and enter them as part of the material types or modifiers. The changes to the code would also be extensive, since nearly every non-Lambertian radiance computation would have to be modified. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From john.gould@internetmci.com Mon Nov 11 06:18:21 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:15:36 -0500 From: john gould Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Reply-To: john.gould@internetmci.com Organization: gould group Status: R subscribe john.gould@internetmci.com From Jmill@gnn.com Tue Nov 12 17:34:23 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:38:07 From: Jmill@gnn.com (jon miller) To: GJWard@lbl.gov Subject: SUBSCRIBE TO LIST Status: RO Hi. I recently purchased adeline 2.0 and I would like to subscribe to your new radiance e-mail list. Thank you. From greg Wed Nov 13 11:15:05 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 10:51:20 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: question on DXF->Radiance translators Status: R >From lwright@orednet.org Tue Nov 12 22:19:36 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:18:51 -0800 To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov From: lwright@orednet.org (Larry wright) Subject: DXF Translators Status: RO Seeking advice, Does there exist a generic DXF translator for radiance (non-AutoLisp)? I would like to use DXF files from "Tree Pro" on my Macintosh in radiance renderings. I am also wondering about converting 3DMF geometry to a radiance octree. Thoughts, ideas, and how to's are welcome. Thanks Larry Wright lwright@orednet.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The program "dxfcvt" that is distributed with Radiance only works with ancient (version 10) DXF, but you might give it a try anyway to see what happens with your "Tree Pro" files. The problem with DXF (besides the fact that AutoDesk changes it with every AutoCAD release) is that it has too many different representations for geometry, and only a few of these have unambiguous interpretations for 3D rendering. It's unfortunate that this ever became an industry standard, but here we are. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From chas Wed Nov 13 12:23:50 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 12:00:05 PST From: chas (Charles Ehrlich) To: raydisc Subject: Re: DXF Translators Cc: chas Status: R There is a more robust DXF translator included with the ADELINE 2.0 package which apparently supports up to ACAD R13. I do not think that any of the "new" 3D geometry types are supported, but the usual 3DFACEs, extruded lines, arc, etc. are properly translated according to how they appear in AutoCAD. ADELINE 2.0 costs $450.00 for a site license and is available through LBNL. The WWW site says more: http://www.radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/home.html You also get an MS-DOS version of Radiance v2.3, Superlite, a minimal 3D modeling program called Scribe, and an MS-DOS based, Windows-like interface to the Radiance "RAD" program for editing .rif files, launching renderings, and graphing energy savings plots (and more). If you have not a WWW browser, contact me by e-mail (do not use the REPLY command) at ckehrlich@lbl.gov and I will e-mail a detailed description of what ADELINE 2.0 does. For current licensed users of ADELINE 1.0, the upgrade price is $200.00. The manual is distributed in a 3-Ring binder instead of the eight separately bound manuals of ADELINE 1.0. -Chas Charles Ehrlich Lawrence Berkeley National Lab From greg Thu Nov 14 10:26:09 1996 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 09:31:02 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: forward: perforated metal in Radiance Status: R > Hi all, > > does anyone know of a good way to create a material that looks similar/equal > to perforated metal? I'd like to avoid 'modelling' the whole thing and > thought there might by a trick to achieve the effect by using some > sort of texture/transparent texture combination. > Please let me know if my question is not exact enough or makes no sense :) > Cheers, > Erwin > -- > Erwin Zierler ! email: erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at > University of Innsbruck ! voice: +43 (0)663-9156926 > Austria ! WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I know this has come up in the past, on a project Chas Ehrlich worked on and someone else had this problem as well. It isn't too difficult to come up with a trans description that has the appropriate amount of reflection and transmission -- just use the reflection of the unperforated material as the starting point, then give a transmission fraction equal to the ratio of the hole diameter to the background, with a degree of specular transmission (arg7) of 1. For example, let's say that your unperforated metal has a refleciton of 65%, which is uniform over the visible spectrum. To this, we add holes that make up about 15% of the surface area. Our trans looks like this: void trans perf 0 0 7 .65 .65 .65 1 0 .15 1 Note that we have given a roughness value of 0, which means both our reflected and transmitted rays will be mirror-like. If you don't want this, you can use a non-zero value, but whatever value you use will affect both the reflected and transmitted components. If you want rough reflection and ideal transmission, then you will be forced to use a different approach, like a mixture: void metal aluminum 0 0 5 .65 .65 .65 1 .08 void mixfunc perf 4 void aluminum .15 . 0 0 The "void" material is given as the foreground to indicate pure transmission through the holes. In either of the above cases, we could have specified a specularity other than one if we wanted to see some diffuse reflection, which would be perfectly sensible. However, one of the things that gives perforated metal its distinctive look is the fact that the holes themselves reflect light. Since they are round, their inner edge tends to catch specular reflections, making them much more visible than their relative area would seem to indicate. To account for this effect, it is necessary to compute the differential area of this inner edge and add its contribution to the appropriate part of the scattering function. The primitive to use is transfunc or BRTDfunc. The latter is probably better, since it allows you to specify a separate pure specular component, which is appropriate to account for the holes. This is an interesting little calculus problem, but I'll have to leave it as an exercise for the reader since I'm too lazy to do it for myself. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From byeh@MIT.EDU Thu Nov 14 18:17:55 1996 Return-Path: From: byeh@MIT.EDU To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:17:58 EST Status: R subscribe byeh@mit.edu From greg Fri Nov 15 12:39:01 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 11:46:34 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: ACAD models and xv drivers available Status: R Here are a couple of items of possible interest to the group: >From moeck@falcon.cc.ukans.edu Fri Nov 15 07:11:41 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:11:32 -0600 From: Martin Moeck To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: ACAD models Status: RO Dear Radiance users, for those of you who are ACAD users there is an interesting website with plenty of (mostly mechanical) parts to download: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Design, Planning, and Assembly Repository National Institute of Standards and Technology Manufacturing Engineering Laboratory Contact: Dr. William C. Regli (regli@cme.nist.gov) URL: http://www.parts.nist.gov/parts Objective: The NIST is creating a national electronic repository of solid models and mechanical designs. The objective is to further the state-of-the-art in academic and industrial process and assembly planning systems by building a catalog of publicly accessible real-world example parts. This repository will provide access to benchmark designs and process plans in a variety of formats to serve as reference data to aide developers in advancing and commercializing automated process planning technologies. Current Status: The Repository currently contains over 500 mechanical parts, maintained in multiple data file formats (STEP AP 203, ACIS .sat, DXF, IGES, DGN, Parasolid .xmt to name but a few). Contributions have been made by major research institutions (Sandia National Labs, U Maryland College Park, U of Southern California, Heriott-Watt, Purdue, UIUC) as well as major CAD/CAM vendors (Bentley, EDS/Unigraphics, ICEM/CDC, Spatial Technologies). Currently there is nearly 750M of information. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, if you are interested in furniture models, the furniture manufacturer Steelcase provides disks with hundreds of furniture pieces for ACAD 12 and 13. Martin Moeck The University of Kansas Architectural Engineering mmoeck@ukans.edu ============================================================= The following is for users of the image display program "xv" who wish to use it to display and convert Radiance pictures: >From carlalex@fivespot.engin.umich.edu Thu Nov 14 23:23:38 1996 Return-Path: To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Subject: Re: xv rpic module revisited. Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:23:28 -0500 From: "Carl A. Adams" Status: RO > OK -- I'll put some mail to the group about getting this module. Could > you remind me where to find it again? > > Thanks! > -Greg http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~carlalex/Pages/HaX/Xvrpic/xv-3.10.ray.tar.gz the 30 second run down again... There are two main directories in this distribution; xv-3.10.dist which contains the unmodified xv v3.10 source, and xv-3.10.ray which shadows xv-3.10.dist with symlinks. All modified files are in the xv-3.10.ray tree. xv-3.10.ray/ray contains all of the new files, and xv-3.10.ray/ray/orig-radiance contains the original radiance pic library functions. The pic library was modified to allow compilation independent of the Radiance distribution. To build XV with the xvrpic module, build in the xv-3.10.ray directory. I should have RCSed the changes, but oh well. next time I build the tar file. aside from that, no surprises. should just build like xv. --- Carl +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Sat Nov 16 09:55:34 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 09:00:43 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: web site for Radiance materials Status: R I wonder if I should link this into the main Radiance web site.... >From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Sat Nov 16 00:43:08 1996 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:45:22 +0100 From: jean@aleph.afuu.fr (Jean Brange) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Radiance editor development advice Status: R Sorry this mail did not reach hobbes so I send it back: Dear Radiance group, We are now developping in Paris a set of tools on Radiance with java, We have started with a material library, avaible through the net at http://www.afuu.fr/class/goodOne/rad.html We plan to developp a small modeller using the same concepts, java and servers. We would be glad to cooperate on a radiance modeller. We choose java because it then work on any machine! (not only unix, even if WE prefer unix!) If you can connect tou our server and give us feed back, We would like this to be a public material library... Jean Brange. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Mon Nov 18 11:37:34 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 11:11:07 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: more Radiance material web addresses Status: R >From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Mon Nov 18 01:30:59 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:33:20 +0100 (MET) From: Jean Brange Sender: jean@aleph.afuu.fr Reply-To: Jean Brange Subject: Material library file To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Cc: jean@aleph.afuu.fr Status: RO Hello all, the material library that we work on is still in construction, at http://www.afuu.fr/class/goodOne/rad.html the file you should load to work on the open file dialogue is : http://www.afuu.fr:80/class/def.mod The help pages will be online this week... We will provide some pages around our work. Thank's for checking and feedback if you can. Jean. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From philipd@krasser.cs.kuleuven.ac.be Mon Nov 18 06:00:55 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:00:57 +0100 (MET) From: Phil Dutre To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe radiance-discuss Status: RO subscribe radiance-discuss From djarvis@arch.vuw.ac.nz Sun Nov 17 16:59:03 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:58:12 +1300 (NZDT) From: Dave Jarvis To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subsciption Content-Md5: sviGGs+Le7emxf6i6lH4Yg== Status: RO Please add me to the subsciption list for the discussion group Name: Dave Jarvis e-mail: djarvis@arch.vuw.ac.nz From chas Mon Nov 18 13:07:01 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 12:29:06 PST From: chas (Charles Ehrlich) To: raydisc Subject: DXF Translators Status: R There is a more robust DXF translator included with the ADELINE 2.0 package which apparently supports up to ACAD R13. I do not think that any of the "new" 3D geometry types are supported, but the usual 3DFACEs, extruded lines, arc, etc. are properly translated according to how they appear in AutoCAD. ADELINE 2.0 costs $450.00 for a site license and is available through LBNL. The WWW site says more: http://www.radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/home.html You also get an MS-DOS version of Radiance v2.3, Superlite, a minimal 3D modeling program called Scribe, and an MS-DOS based, Windows-like interface to the Radiance "RAD" program for editing .rif files, launching renderings, and graphing energy savings plots (and more). If you have not a WWW browser, contact me by e-mail (do not use the REPLY command) at ckehrlich@lbl.gov and I will e-mail a detailed description of what ADELINE 2.0 does. For current licensed users of ADELINE 1.0, the upgrade price is $200.00. The manual is distributed in a 3-Ring binder instead of the eight separately bound manuals of ADELINE 1.0. -Chas Charles Ehrlich Lawrence Berkeley National Lab From eslinger@cerfnet.com Mon Nov 18 17:35:18 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:35:38 -0800 (PST) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: eslinger@CERF.NET (George Eslinger) Subject: subscribe Status: R George A. Eslinger, Director, Bureau of Street Lighting, City of Los Angeles, CA Phone: 213-847-6401, Fax: 213-847-5405, Email: eslinger@cerfnet.com From eslinger@cerfnet.com Mon Nov 18 17:35:18 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:35:38 -0800 (PST) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: eslinger@CERF.NET (George Eslinger) Subject: subscribe Status: R George A. Eslinger, Director, Bureau of Street Lighting, City of Los Angeles, CA Phone: 213-847-6401, Fax: 213-847-5405, Email: eslinger@cerfnet.com From greg Fri Nov 22 10:13:51 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 09:45:43 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: more on perforated metal Status: R >From jean@aleph.afuu.fr Fri Nov 22 01:48:07 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:47:01 +0100 (MET) From: jean@aleph.afuu.fr Sender: jib@aleph Reply-To: jean@aleph.afuu.fr Subject: Re: perfo.cal 2nd time To: Erwin Zierler , radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Status: RO Hi Erwin, we seem to have E-mail problems these days so this is a second posting and is some how different from the first one cause I never archive posts to list (I should get them from the list! .. oops!) here is what I sent you and the list about perfo.cal. it produced nice result as simulating the view through the perforated steel. but the definition for the steel is not necesary good. I would apreciate comments, I did not find the time to try Georg Mischler cal. i am on fire for other projects... { Calculate BRTDF of perforated steel. source: tim.cal 29 Nov 1991 Greg Ward and Raphael Compagnon Creation: 01 Mar 1995 jib-ETNA Last Modif: 15 Mar 1995 jib Apply with following BRTDfunc: mod BRTDfunc perforatedmat 10 refl refl refl stran stran stran brtdf brtdf brtdf tim1.cal 0 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 red green blue hole_rad hole_spacingx } hole_rad = arg(13) ; hole_spacingx = arg(14); gridx=1.7321*hole_spacingx; gridy=hole_spacingx; offsetx=.866*hole_spacingx; offsety=.5*hole_spacingx; u_hole1 = hole_rad - mod(U,gridx); v_hole1 = hole_rad - mod(V,gridy); u_hole2 = hole_rad - mod(U+offsetx,gridx); v_hole2 = hole_rad - mod(V+offsety,gridy); z = if(or(hole_rad-sqrt(u_hole1*u_hole1+v_hole1*v_hole1),hole_rad-sqrt(u_hole2*u_hole2+v_hole2*v_hole2)) , 1, 0 ); refl = if(z,0,1); rrefl = if(z,0,arg(10)); grefl = if(z,0,arg(11)); brefl = if(z,0,arg(12)); stran = z; brtdf(lx,ly,lz) = 0; +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at Fri Nov 22 10:35:30 1996 Return-Path: From: Erwin Zierler Subject: Perforated material - Thank you all! To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 19:34:20 +0100 (MEZ) Status: RO Hello fellow Radiance users, I'd like to thank you all for the great responses you sent via the list and also in private email. I'm still in the process of testing all of them but due to the fact that I have a project deadline next week I cannot report my experiences yet. As soon as I've got the material together and enough time to compose a nice summary of the different approaches to generate 'perforated metal/material' I will send my results to the this list. In the meantime: thanks alot everyone :-) Erwin -- Erwin Zierler ! email: erwin@bau3.uibk.ac.at University of Innsbruck ! voice: +43 (0)663-9156926 Austria ! WWW: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/erwin/ From haldane@MIT.EDU Tue Nov 26 08:54:12 1996 Return-Path: From: haldane@MIT.EDU To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:54:24 EST Status: R subscribe haldane@mit.edu From mandelman@shooshanian.com Tue Nov 26 09:35:18 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 12:37:33 -0500 From: mandelman@shooshanian.com (Michael Andelman) To: RADIANCE-REQUEST@HOBBES.lbl.gov Subject: Please include me as a subscriber to the list. X-Url: http://radsite.lbl.gov/adeline/new_features.html Status: R Thank you. From meinrad.scheibleger@erlm.asi.siemens.de Tue Nov 26 05:40:35 1996 Return-Path: From: meinrad.scheibleger@erlm.asi.siemens.de Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:39:49 +0100 (MET) To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: New adress Status: RO Please unsubscribe meinrad@marina.scn.de on both lists and subscribe meinrad.scheibleger@trt.asi.siemens.de on both lists From greg Tue Dec 10 10:39:50 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 10:15:32 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: New version of Radout (3.9) Status: R >From @charon.hl-technik.de:gm@hl-technik.de Tue Dec 10 07:39:23 1996 Return-Path: <@charon.hl-technik.de:gm@hl-technik.de> From: "Georg Mischler" To: radiance-discuss@georg.schorsch.com Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:38:00 -0100 Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: radout3.9 Status: RO Hello fellow radiance users, I am proud to present (with the kind permission of Philip Thompson): *** The Radout v3.9 for Unix Systems Source Code Distribution *** http://www.schorsch.com/autocad/radout/index.html What is radout: Radout is an ADS application for Autocad 12 and up for exporting geometry data to the RADIANCE lighting simulation package. Radout is largely based on the old torad.lsp program, which provided the inspiration and the understanding of autocad's workings to the author Philip Thompson. Methodically, it is almost identical. The main differences to torad are: - Compiled in C, executes up to 10 times faster. - Creates a simple rif file for immediate input to rad(1). - Some bugs avoided, some new introduced. - Much better arc/bulge approximation. - Creates rif file for input to rad(1). This release is version 3.9, including my modifications to support the upcoming ddrad radiance user interface for autocad. Radout 3.9 has been compiled and tested on the following platforms: Sun Solaris 2.x SGI Irix 5.x/6.x HP-UX 10.x/11.x Most other unix platforms should compile with little changes to the top level makefile. Please note though, that you need an ANSI compiler. Many compilers bundled with unix systems allready are ANSI compatible (most prominent exception beeing SunOS 4.x). Otherwise your best choice usually is gcc. I hope to be able to supply binary distributions for various platforms eventually. If you want to contribute one (and the makefile changes needed to build it), go ahead! This release 3.9 is meant to prepare you for the upcoming release of ddrad. Nevertheless, it is still completely functional as a standalone application. The DDRAD user interface is still in the works, and will probably be released in the first quarter of 1997, depending on my time and the outcome of the negotiations about which third party modules I may include (do you listen, Benjamin Geebelen? ;-). For the moment, all of you get a chance to experience the superior geometry export performance, which will make my torad pages more and more obsolete. If nothing goes wrong, the coming release of ddrad 2.0 will be completely compatible with this release of radout, though there might be a radout release 4.0 anyway, with some more bugs fixed then. The goal is, that you won't have to reinstall radout to work with ddrad if you get the ddrad configuration right. In case you want to use radout on DOS or Windows systems, you still need the port offered by Chas Ehrlich, available at: http://www.dnai.com/~chas/radiance/radout.html Please note though, that this version is not compatible with ddrad. There are people considering to change this (say: merge the two versions), but those plans are still rather vague at this time (at least to my knoweledge). Those of you who want to continue using radiance with autocad will need to think about such activities relatively soon though, since autodesk has now officially stopped further developpement for all unix platforms. Personally, I will have to consider other possibilities as well, either trying to get radiance running on WindowsNT or moving to another CAD package within the next two or three years. Obviously, this desicion will influence the nature of my future contributions with regards to radout and ddrad very much. My earlier decision, to move as much of ddrad as possible away from autolisp after release 2.0, has now been proven to be valid by autodesk. If anyone is allready working on a gemoetry export module for microstation (or considering such work), please let me know. This would make the move away from autocad much more inviting. Though I have invested quite some work in the customisation of autocad for the unix platform, but such is life... For now, I hope you will enjoy the performance of radout 3.9 as much as I do. Some of my recent radiance projects would have been impossible to master without. Happy exporting! Georg Mischler From rpg@sprynet.com Tue Dec 10 11:19:58 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:18:47 -0500 From: Rob Guglielmetti To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Subscribe request Status: R Please subscribe me to the moderated announcement and digest list. From greg Wed Dec 11 12:40:45 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 12:15:30 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Inventor format Status: R Here are some questions I'm forwarding in case anyone has any experience with the Inventor 3D model format: >From radiance@arup.co.uk Wed Dec 11 10:46:58 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 18:46:38 GMT From: radiance@arup.com To: GJWard@lbl.gov Subject: Inventor Status: RO Hi Greg, seasonal greetings. I'm looking for a converter from and to SGI Inventor format for RADIANCE models. I recall seeing some dialogue on this in the Radiance discussion group sometime ago. Are you aware of the existence of such a converter? or anyone who is working on one? Regards -Steve Walker >From greg Wed Dec 11 10:52:48 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 10:52:22 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: radiance@arup.com Subject: Re: Inventor Status: RO Hi Steve, Greetings to you as well. Unfortunately, I don't know of any translators going from Inventor to Radiance -- only the other way via rad2mgf and mgf2inv. Interpreting Inventor format files is tricky, and requires a big, C++ parser and library that I haven't had time to look into. I don't know of anyone working on this at the moment, but I can post your query to the Radiance discussion group to ask. Shall I? -Greg >From radiance@arup.co.uk Wed Dec 11 11:57:46 1996 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 19:56:52 GMT From: radiance@arup.com To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Inventor Status: RO Hi Greg, I wasn't aware of the rad2mgf and mgf2inv programs - where can I pick them up? It seems that SGI would like everyone to buy there Open Inventor package (is there an oxymoron there?) which would almost certainly do the inv2rad conversion. We're contemplating getting this but in the meantime being able to write Inventor files would be most useful (- I'm using IRIS Explorer to display rtrace results and the missing bit is the scene geometry at the moment). Of course raising the issue with the Radiance discussion group would be welcome. -Steve Walker ------------------ I have written a converter from the Materials and Geometry Format (see http://radsite.lbl.gov/mgf/HOME.html for details) to Inventor and VRML 1.0 format, and this may be combined with rad2mgf to get from Radiance -> Inventor or VRML, but not the other way. Here is a script that works on some SGI systems for viewing Radiance files, similar to objview but using SceneViewer and hardware acceleration: #!/bin/sh # # View Radiance object using Inventor # echo "Converting input file...\c" (echo xf -rx -90; rad2mgf "$@"; echo xf) | mgf2inv -1 > /usr/tmp/rf$$.iv && \ echo "done." && \ SceneViewer /usr/tmp/rf$$.iv exec rm -f /usr/tmp/rf$$.iv ------------------- I don't know why Steve thinks that the OpenInventor package would provide a converter to Radiance. I seriously doubt it would. Does anyone know for sure? Is anyone working on this problem? -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Fri Dec 13 11:13:13 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 10:00:40 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance under mkLinux Status: R >From m.carr@auckland.ac.nz Thu Dec 12 18:16:11 1996 Return-Path: From: Matiu Carr Subject: Radiance on mkLinux To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:32:32 +1300 (NDT) Status: RO Hi Has anyone compiled Radiance under linux on a mac, specifically mklinux? It dies doing the stuff in "rt" and "utils" with the message, "there were errors" I think it might have something to do with the X11 stuff, and have tried the linux install, Machten install, and ARCH=13!! thanks, Mat ---------------------------------------------- Matiu Carr m.carr@auckland.ac.nz matiu@carr.gen.nz University of Auckland http://archpropplan.auckland.ac.nz/People/Mat/ ---------------------------------------------- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Fri Dec 13 16:37:12 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 15:40:50 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance under Linux Status: R >From paulg@teleport.com Fri Dec 13 15:34:26 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: Paul Garceau To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:38:53 -800 Subject: Re: Radiance under mkLinux Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: RO > From: Matiu Carr > Subject: Radiance on mkLinux > To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:32:32 +1300 (NDT) > > Has anyone compiled Radiance under linux on a mac, specifically > mklinux? I've compiled it under Linux, except it wasn't a Mac. You might be sure that you have all of the Mac libraries (M68k) before you attempt an install. Radiance is very picky about what is and is not available on the system. My own install took a bit of time. I also needed to be sure that I had a csh available on the system for it to handle some of the make stuff, specifically mklinux since mklinux is a csh based script. You might want to verify that you do indeed have a csh available. If not, install it and use the "shell" command (see the format with shell --h, or shell --help) to get the latest version of csh active and to test to be sure that it works on your system. You may need some special libraries (such as aout data files since I don't think the available version of cshell [csh] for Linux is very recent at all). If you do have csh installed, then the next thing to check is that all the libraries (as noted above for the 68k based system since most of the Macs I am aware of are 68k based systems) are installed. Also, check that you have the latest kernel (2.0.22 or later) for your Linux and all the various utilities you need (such as the right version of libc, make 3.75 or later, a collection of the aout libraries for 68k and a collection of the ELF libraries for Linux -- Radiance, as far as I know is set up to use the aout file libraries; if someone could verify this it would be appreciated.) You may not need the aout files. Even so, as a precaution it might be a good idea to install them on your system and leave them there until there is no more software on your Linux system that requires them. You'll also need to be sure that you have the latest version of tcl/tk for your Linux system since Radiance needs those utilities in order to run some of the binaries that are eventually installed. "rt" and "util", afaik, is a tcl/tk based binary that requires the aout file formats. I trust Greg to correct me on this if I am wrong. [The "trad" program, built in src/util, is the only dependent on Tcl/Tk. -G] As far as I can tell there are certain X libs that need to be there. Whether they are aout or ELF can, and quite possibly does, make a difference, thus my earlier suggestion about installing both the aout and the ELF libs if you only have one or the other. Also, be sure that you define the proper include and libc (libc headers) directories so that "mklinux" can find them in the actual configuration of the "make" itself. You also may have to define the machine you are using, though this is not likely since Radiance can be compiled using GCC (again, you need to specify this in the configuration options otherwise Radiance assumes Ansi C as far as I know.) and later versions of GCC can usually figure out the processor being used. [Radiance is K&R C, which predates ANSI and leaves off prototypes. -G] One more thing, as long as csh is available in one of your binary directories you may be able to let Radiance hunt it down as long as it is runnable and available under Linux. Since I am unfamiliar with the 68k based Linux box, there is not much more I can offer at this point. > > It dies doing the stuff in "rt" and "utils" with the message, > "there were errors" I had the same sort of errors when I compiled Radiance (now using a Pentium based system). Verify that you have csh available to use as well as the proper libc and X lib files, manually defining the proper libc include, libs and X libs as needed. I hope this is helpful. Cheers. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From matthews@artifice.com Mon Dec 16 14:59:39 1996 Return-Path: Subject: Re: Radiance on mkLinux Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 15:02:22 -0800 From: Kevin Matthews To: "Matiu Carr" Cc: "Artifice Support" , "Gregory J. Ward" Status: RO Hi Matiu, Haven't tried building on linux/mac, but I can report that most of the tricky spots in building on MachTen/Mac have to do with the paths to the X11 libraries. When I tried to use the MachTen install for MachTen, it didn't work, and we haven't been able to focus on the detials yet -- even though I'm sure it is a small glitch of a sort we've solved before... Good luck -- I'd like to hear if someone can give you a solid answer. Thanks, Kevin From greg Tue Dec 17 12:37:10 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 11:59:45 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: modeling "kalwall" in Radiance Status: R I don't know what "kalwall" is, but maybe someone else does. -G >From eharch@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 16 09:24:41 1996 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:20:41 -0500 From: Robert Westling Reply-To: eharch@worldnet.att.net Organization: eha To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance Materials Status: RO Has anyone needed to include the material 'Kalwall' in a daylighting analysis? We are modeling a skylights in a museum and want the closest material definition we can get, for illuminance accuracy. I imagine Kalwall would be a trans material type with a low level of transmission and a high diffuse parameter. If any one has experience with this material please let me know. Thank you in advance. Robert Westling steinerwestling From greg Tue Dec 17 19:37:16 1996 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 18:59:04 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Re: modeling "kalwall" in Radiance Status: R >From darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com Tue Dec 17 18:39:35 1996 Return-Path: To: raydisc@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: modeling "kalwall" in Radiance Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:15:16 +0100 From: Christoph Hoegl Status: R Hello, > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:20:41 -0500 > From: Robert Westling > Reply-To: eharch@worldnet.att.net > Organization: eha > To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov > Subject: Radiance Materials > > Has anyone needed to include the material 'Kalwall' in a daylighting > analysis? see http://www.stoakes.co.uk/kalwall1.htm for further information regards, Christoph Back after a long time hacking on a Modeler (first alphaversion will be announced soon) -- Christoph Hoegl / darkwing@bsdd.regensburg.com / (Darkwing@berkeley.edu) Siedlungsstr. 18 93128 Regenstauf Germany Fax:+49 940270611 12a Tellerrd. 93720 Berkeley CA USA Fax:+1 (510) 642 1043 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From heckes@mx3eslb.dmt-lb.cubis.de Tue Dec 17 00:19:46 1996 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Juergen Heckes" Organization: DMT Gesellschaft fuer Lehre und Bildung mbH To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:19:14 +1 Subject: Hilfe Reply-To: heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de Return-Receipt-To: heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de Priority: normal Status: RO help end _______________________________________________________________________ __ Dipl.-Ing. Holger LANGER / /\ DMT-LB (DBM) / / \ Deutsches Bergbau-Museum / / /\ \ Abt. Photogrammetrie / / /\ \ \ / / / \ \ \ Mail: Am Bergbaumuseum 28, 44791 Bochum, Germany / /_/____\ \ \ Tel.: ++ 49 (0)234 5877 148 /__________\ \ \ Fax: ++ 49 (0)234 5877 111 \_____________\/ mailto:heckes@dmt-lb.cubis.de ________________________________________________________________________ From greg Fri Dec 20 11:11:43 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 10:48:29 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: fritted glass in Radiance Status: R >From steinerwestling@worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 20 09:10:53 1996 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:06:44 -0500 From: Robert Westling Reply-To: steinerwestling@worldnet.att.net Organization: steinerwestling To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Ceramic Frit Patterns Status: RO Another question regarding materials for skylights: Is there a way to make a material in Radiance similar to the opacity maps found in 'photo-realistic' rendering software, (ie. 3d Studio). We want to be able to map a bitmap, perhaps in the form of a *.pic file, onto a glass material and have all values in the bitmap drop out so that you can see through where the bitmap is darker than a particular value. It would seem that this could be achieved via a picture func file but we have never seen it done in any of the previous discussion archives. Has anyone written a func file to do opacity mapping? Thank you in advance. ps Radiance 3.0 flies on a Pentium Pro 200 w/ 256 meg of ram, 512k l2 cache, and Slackware 95. Go go go!! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Both the "mixfunc" and "mixdata" primitives can switch between two materials, or between a material and "void", permitting this kind of opacity map. This didn't use to be possible, but has been added in version 3.0. What you might want to try is the "mixtext" primitive, which will actually allow you to specify a bitmap to switch between glass (or trans) and your frit material. Use the special font "hexbit4x1.fnt" which takes a hex digit ([0-9A-F]) and uses it as a 4 adjacent bits in a row of your bitmap. For example, let's say you had a row of 13 bits, where 1 is a frit position and 0 is no frit: 0100100010100 This would be converted into a line of hex digits in your text file: 48A0 The next line in the file would be the next row in your bitmap. The problem with this method is that the boundaries of your text file define the boundaries of your frit pattern. If you want a repeating pattern, you'll have to stick with the mixfunc or mixdata type and use a tiling coordinate mapping. -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From cceyeoeh@nus.sg Mon Jan 6 00:38:10 1997 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:38:39 +0800 (SST) From: Yeo Eng Hee To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: request to join radiance discussion group Status: RO Hello, I would like to be included in the radiance discussion group. My particulars are below: Name: Yeo, Eng Hee email: cceyeoeh@nus.sg Thanks, Eng Hee. Supercomputing & Visualisation Unit Computer Centre, National University of Singapore 10 Kent Ridge Crescent Singapore 119260 Tel: (65) 771 5085 Fax: (65) 778 0198 --- Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. -- D. Gries From mstock@engin.umich.edu Wed Jan 8 15:40:54 1997 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:41:37 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Stock To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Mist Question Status: R Hello, I have a simple question: Why can I not get a mist sphere to rpict properly with a user-defined albedo? void mist cloudstuff 1 sky 0 6 0.005 0.005 0.005 0.8 0.8 0.8 cloudstuff sphere cloud1 0 0 4 -100 -150 100 180 ...plus other stuff in the scene rpict -vp -700 -700 20 -vd 1 1 0.2 -ab 1 scene.oct > image1.pic rpict: fatal - bad arguments for mist "cloudstuff" rpict: 8904 rays, 22.85% after 0.001u 0.000s 0.001r hours on ...... The mist material works when only the extinction coefficients are used. Any help will be appreciated! Thanks! Mark Stock mstock@engin.umich.edu From greg Wed Jan 8 15:50:32 1997 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 15:50:15 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: mstock@engin.umich.edu Subject: Re: Mist Question Status: R Hi Mark, There was a bug in release 3.0 regarding mist arguments, that has been fixed in a patch. Be sure to install all the patches in the /pub/patch directory on hobbes.lbl.gov. The process has been automated to make it easier. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that putting "sky" as your scattering source is not going to work. This is only meant for normal, non-glow sources. This should work anyway without it to give you a spherical cloud. Do you still want me to post this to the rest of the group, or shall I just stick it in the digest for the next distribution? -Greg From mstock@engin.umich.edu Wed Jan 8 15:54:18 1997 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:55:01 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Stock To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Re: Mist Question Status: R Greg, Naw, I don't think there's a need to post it to the group, I just hadn't realized that there were patches that weren't installed on our system here. If you've recieved enough questions about it, though, you may want to. Thanks for the quick reply! Mark Stock mstock@engin.umich.edu From greg Tue Jan 21 10:21:07 1997 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 09:54:50 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance results (German) Status: R >From @charon.hl-technik.de:helios.hl-technik.de@hl-technik.de Mon Jan 20 04:33:39 1997 Return-Path: <@charon.hl-technik.de:helios.hl-technik.de@hl-technik.de> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:29:19 -0100 From: gm@helios.hl-technik.de (Georg Mischler) To: radiance-discuss@georg.schorsch.com Subject: Radiance Projects Web-pages Status: RO hello all fellow radiancers, those of you that are not be scared away by german texts can now have a look at some of the reasons that kept me from pushing the release of ddrad more than I did last year. The url: http://www.hl-technik.de/9701_1_0_0.htm displays some of my recent daylighting work with radiance. I selected the most interesting projects from an architectural and lighting designers' point of view. Most renderings are not optimised to the last bit of smooth photorealism, but rather to an efficient computation of the required numerical results. The most demanding constraint in this context usually was model size and complexity (our SIMM supplier loves me). The images shown have then been used to transport the conclusions and recommendations drawn from the computed values to the customers and architects. These pages are one chapter of a series of "topics of the month" on our server (older issues found in the "archive"). Presented topics will eventually cover the full range of building technology. Right now the complete site is in german only. We are currently working on an english (and eventually french) version. hope you enjoy it Georg Mischler +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From kaming@cuhk.edu.hk Thu Jan 23 03:01:56 1997 Return-Path: Sender: benny@cuhk.edu.hk Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:02:26 +0800 From: "Chow ka ming, Benny" Organization: Department of Architecture, CUHK To: Radiance Discussion Group Subject: Image Conversion between TGA, TIF, JPG, GIF to PIC ? Status: RO Hi All, I would like to apply texture mapping on one of my architectural model. I found out from User Guide that I can use colorpict and picture.cal to apply a *.pic on the surface. I would wonder if I scan in some real material, how can i convert it into *.pic - radiance picture format. Benny ______________________________________________________________________ Mr. CHOW ka-ming, Benny Voice : (852) 2603 7342 DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE, CUHK Fax : (852) 2603 5267 Web : http://www.arch.cuhk.edu.hk/~benny E-mail: kaming@cuhk.edu.hk From greg Thu Jan 23 10:32:38 1997 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 10:32:20 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: kaming@cuhk.edu.hk Subject: Re: Image Conversion between TGA, TIF, JPG, GIF to PIC ? Status: RO There are a number of image conversion programs. Check out ra_t8, ra_t16, ra_ppm, ra_tiff, etc. Not all of them have reverse conversion options, but most do. -Greg P.S. I didn't forward this to the discussion group, since it was just as easy for me to answer it myself. Hope that's OK. From pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Fri Jan 24 07:18:28 1997 Return-Path: From: Jeff Pedelty Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:19:10 -0500 (EST) Status: R Please subscribe me to the announce and digest lists. Thanks, Jeff Pedelty NASA/GSFC From pedelty@ltpmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Fri Jan 24 10:57:27 1997 Return-Path: From: Jeff Pedelty Subject: Re: subscribe To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:57:50 -0500 (EST) Status: R Thanks for the quick response. Our group is using radiance in combination with physical models to perform vegetation modeling. Jeff From g.m.podesta@agonet.it Fri Jan 24 13:51:45 1997 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:55:00 +0100 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: Giulio Maria Podesta Subject: Status: R ------ Origin: Giulio Maria Podesta' (g.m.podesta@agonet.it) via Prevostura, 26 - 29100 PIACENZA Italy (Europe) tel. 39-523-384004 From th@sprynet.com Sat Jan 25 15:55:51 1997 Return-Path: From: "Terence D. Hairston" To: "'radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov'" Subject: Request to Join Radiance Mailing Lists Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:55:48 -0000 Status: R I would like to be on both Radiance related mailing groups. Terence D Hairston th@sprynet.com From owner-globillum-imag@imag.fr Sat Jan 25 16:30:26 1997 Return-Path: From: "Charles Patterson" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:39:05 -0500 To: globillum@imag.fr Subject: subcribe - charliep@cc.gatech.edu Status: R subscribe charliep@cc.gatech.edu -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Charlie Patterson * Georgia Tech * charliep@cc.gatech.edu http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Phd/Charles.Patterson/ From greg Mon Feb 3 14:19:26 1997 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 13:55:14 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Torch values Status: R I think this should come from the size of the flame and the black body temperature, no? >From jlm@gamsau.archi.fr Mon Feb 3 13:36:45 1997 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:37:05 +0100 (MET) From: jlm@gamsau.archi.fr (Jean-Louis Maltret-GAMSAU) To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: torchs Status: RO I am searching for radiance values of torchs (oil or petroleum) which were used during ancient times, greek or roman. If somebody has informations,... Thanks. ======================================================== Jean-Louis MALTRET GAMSAU Tel: +33 4.91.82.71.64 School of Architecture Fax: +33 4.91.82.71.71 184 Avenue de Luminy jlm@gamsau.archi.fr F-13288 MARSEILLE Cedex 09 ======================================================== +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From greg Tue Feb 4 13:27:09 1997 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 13:02:02 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: FormZ translator Cc: jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu Status: R Does anyone know how to get from FormZ to Radiance on a Macintosh? -Greg -------------- >From jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu Tue Feb 4 12:40:05 1997 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:40:53 -0500 (EST) From: "JANETTE L. LEVENSON" To: "Gregory J. Ward" Subject: Re: questions about radiance. Status: R Hi Greg, Our export options for Form-Z include: DXF, ESP, FACT, Form-Z, IGES, Illustrator, OBJ, PICT, RIB, STL, Targa, 3DGF, 3DMF, and TIFF. I could try importing Form-Z again. How do you suggest I do it, in case I'm not doing something correct. Thanks again for your help, Jan On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Gregory J. Ward wrote: > Hi Jan, > > I could have sworn that FormZ had some kind of export option that allowed > it to work with Radiance, but I have no idea what it is. Maybe I was > dreaming it, or it was simply wishful thinking on my part. What are the > export options for FormZ? > > -Greg > +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From audile@onramp.net Tue Feb 4 14:02:45 1997 Return-Path: Subject: Re: FormZ translator -- More Info Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 16:02:57 -0600 From: To: "Gregory J. Ward" Status: R (Made the time for you...) FormZ export settings: Grouping Method: By Object Export Method for Solids/Surfaces: By Object Preserve C-Mesh and C-Curve Controls Preserve Face Colors Export Visible Layers Only Subdivide Concave Faces Triangulate Faces -- Options: Triangulate All Faces -- (leftmost method) Include Normals Fix Smooth Shading -- Angle 40 Use Absolute Indices Newlines: UNIX (in version > 2.82) Export Transformation: Normals Point Outward (and others as needed) use obj2rad one with the -n option to get materials that you'll need, then again to convert the obj for use. hope this helps, robert From greg Tue Feb 4 14:19:31 1997 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 13:54:34 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: robert@audile.com Subject: Re: FormZ translator Cc: jllevens@hamlet.uncg.edu, raydisc Status: R Thanks, Robert. I knew there was some way, and it was even staring me right in the face in Jan's letter! I'm just spacing out here.... -Greg ----------------- >From audile@onramp.net Tue Feb 4 13:48:19 1997 Return-Path: Subject: Re: FormZ translator Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 15:49:04 -0600 From: To: "Gregory J. Ward" Status: R >Does anyone know how to get from FormZ to Radiance on a Macintosh? > >-Greg Hi Greg: I didn't want to respond in the wrong way, so I'm just sending this right to you. Hope that's OK for this time... Almost all of those images on my hacked together page that is linked to yours came from FormZ models. You just export triangulated geometry with normals in OBJ format and use the obj to radiance conversion program that we tweaked last year to not put textures out for flat traingles. I don't have time to spit back the exact settings right now because I'm in the middle of a big project, but it all works out great (as you can see from the images). robert [P.S. Robert's web site is "http://rampages.onramp.net/~audile/radiance/", and is linked to the Radiance main site.] +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From chb@cs.tu-berlin.de Tue Feb 11 03:12:43 1997 Return-Path: From: Christoph Breitkopf Subject: subscribe To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:12:08 +0100 (MET) Status: R Please add "chb@cs.tu-berlin.de" to the Radiance mailing list. From jhgreen@labrador.res-hall.nwu.edu Sat Feb 22 11:23:30 1997 Return-Path: From: Jed Greene Subject: Re: what was your request? To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov (Gregory J. Ward) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:23:03 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: jhgreen@nwu.edu (Jed Greene) Status: R > Re: Radiance mailing list subscription request > > Subscribe to which list? The moderated announcement and digest mailing list, > or the unmoderated discussion group? Usually people subscribe either to > the announcement list only, or to both lists. > > -Greg > Both lists, please. Also, could you update the README file on the list archive so others do not make this mistake. Thank you, Jed From N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 02:27:37 1997 Return-Path: From: Neil Ashdown Organization: Manchester Metropolitan University To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:29:19 GMT Subject: subscribe please Priority: normal Status: R I would like to subscribe to both the moderated radiance mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group please. (I used to subscribe to these lists, but I haven't received anything for quite a while). Thanks, Neil. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Ashdown N.Ashdown@mmu.ac.uk Department of Architecture, Landscape and Three-Dimensional Design Manchester Metropolitan University tel: (0161) 247 1134 fax: (0161) 247 6822 http://www.mmu.ac.uk/art-des/arc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From greg Thu Feb 27 18:03:09 1997 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 17:40:18 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Radiance material properties Status: R Anyone want to offer some advice? >From ben.geebelen@asro.kuleuven.ac.be Thu Feb 27 01:23:42 1997 Return-Path: Sender: ben@asro.kuleuven.ac.be Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:44:05 +0100 From: Benjamin Geebelen Organization: dept. ASRO, KULeuven To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: material properties Status: RO Hello everyone, can anyone tell me where it's best to look for material properties such as specular reflection factors, transmission factors, etc. The material.rad file is a good start, but where do I begin to look for other or new materials? Is there enough literature on this or is there a (best) way to test these things? Thanks a lot. Ben ____________________________________________________________ benjamin geebelen doctoral student in architecture KULeuven dept. asro arenbergkasteel b-3001 heverlee tel: #32-16-32.17.41 fax: #32-16-32.19.84 e-mail: ben.geebelen@asro.kuleuven.ac.be homepage: http://mich1.asro.kuleuven.ac.be/ben/ ===================== +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From gibsons@cs.man.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 01:05:52 1997 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 09:03:57 GMT From: Simon Gibson To: radmod@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Status: R Please subscribe me to your mailing list Simon Gibson sg@cs.man.ac.uk From greg Fri Mar 14 10:08:54 1997 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 14 Mar 97 09:44:21 PST From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: Siggraph Slide Submissions Status: R >From holly@watson.ibm.com Fri Mar 14 06:01:03 1997 Return-Path: X-Lotus-Fromdomain: IBM RESEARCH From: "Holly Rushmeier" To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:00:34 -0400 Subject: Got Cool Images? Status: R Could you send this to the Radiance discussion group? I think they are a group of people who could send some really beautiful and/or useful images to the SIGGRAPH slide program. To: holly @ watson.ibm.com cc: (bcc: Holly Rushmeier/Watson/IBM Research) From: wolfe @ cs.depaul.edu Date: 03/13/97 05:48:19 PM CST Subject: Got Cool Images? SIGGRAPH 97 is looking for the last and greatest you've got in computer-generated imagery. The SIGGRAPH 97 Technical Slide set showcases the best in new or enhanced algorithms and applications. Slide set images are often used for SIGGRAPH conference promotional pieces, the opening session and media inquiries. So send us your slides! See http://www.siggraph.org/s97/contributors/programs/slide/index.html for details. Deadline is March 19. Rosalee Wolfe Technical Slide Set Editor wolfe@siggraph.org ------------- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch Thu Apr 3 03:51:15 1997 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 97 13:48:24 +0200 From: courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch (Courret) To: greg@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Radiance Status: RO Hi greg, I appologize for not sending this e-meil to the discution group, but I have lost my mailboxe and I don't remenber its address. So, could you please diffuse this on it: I am looking for a soft to translate Radiance scene file format (*.rad) into one of the following Formats: - Pro/ENGINEER -IGES -STL _VDA STL would be the more appropriate. Thanks -------------------------------------------------------- Gilles COURRET Laboratoire d'Energie SOlaire et de Physique du Bbtiment ITB/DA Ecole Polytechnique Fidirale de Lausanne 1015 Lausanne Switzerland Til: +.41.21.693.55.53 Fax: +.41.21.693.55.50 e-mail: courret@lesosun2.epfl.ch or Gilles.Courret@leso.epfl.da.ch From bwaurk@urc.tue.nl Sat Apr 12 06:43:41 1997 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:43:17 +0200 To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov From: Roel Knapen Subject: Subscription Status: RO Hello, Please subscribe me to both the the moderated announcement and digest mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group. Roel Knapen University of Technology Eindhoven The Netherlands. From greg Fri Apr 18 11:38:48 1997 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 11:15:54 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: trad problems Status: R >From jlm@eiffel.gamsau.archi.fr Fri Apr 18 00:54:24 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:53:40 +0200 From: Jean-Louis Maltret To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: tk4.2 I have a problem with trad under new versions of tcl/tk (tk 4.2 especially under solaris and linux) because the function "tklistboxSingleSelect" is no longer known. Has anyone encountered this problem and what is the workaround ? I can look at tcl source but it is not really with pleasure. Thanks. ================================================================== Jean-Louis MALTRET GAMSAU Tel: +33 04.91.82.71.64 School of Architecture Fax: +33 04.91.82.71.71 184 Avenue de Luminy jlm@gamsau.archi.fr F-13288 MARSEILLE Cedex 09 http://www.gamsau.archi.fr/~jlm/ ------------------------------------------------------------------ "Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas" Virgile (Georgiques II) ================================================================== The temporary solution to the following problem is to make a link between wish and wish4.0 in the system execution directory. (Find wish by running `which wish`. You can make a link to your own bin directory if you don't have system privledges.) Then, rerun "rmake install" in the ray/src/util directory to install the more recent version of trad. The long term solution is for me to pull support for wish3.6. Is anyone out there still running it? -Greg +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From paulg@teleport.com Fri Apr 18 14:44:25 1997 Return-Path: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Paul Garceau" Organization: New Dawn Productions To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:44:23 -800 Subject: Re: trad problems Reply-To: paulg@teleport.com Priority: normal Status: R On 18 Apr 97 at 11:15, the Illustrious Gregory J. Ward wrote: > >From jlm@eiffel.gamsau.archi.fr Fri Apr 18 00:54:24 1997 > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:53:40 +0200 > From: Jean-Louis Maltret > To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov > Subject: tk4.2 > The temporary solution to the following problem is to make a link > between wish and wish4.0 in the system execution directory. (Find > wish by running `which wish`. You can make a link to your own bin > directory if you don't have system privledges.) Then, rerun "rmake > install" in the ray/src/util directory to install the more recent version > of trad. > > The long term solution is for me to pull support for wish3.6. Is anyone > out there still running it? I started with tcl/tk 4.2 and later. I didn't use 3.6 at all under Linux. Peace, Paul G. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. From jrjones-jesa@asme.org Tue Apr 22 05:58:19 1997 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:00:27 -0400 From: James R Jones Organization: JESA Services To: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: subscribe Status: R Hello Please add me to both the moderated announcement and digest mailing list and the unmoderated discussion group. Thanks James R Jones JESA Services jrjones-jesa@asme.org From greg Tue Apr 29 09:40:25 1997 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 09:17:00 PDT From: greg (Gregory J. Ward) To: raydisc Subject: apologies Status: RO I've now attempted to send out this message twice, making mistakes both times. Some of you may get this twice, so forgive me! I'm at a symposium, feeling terribly jet-lagged after flying all night with food poisoning and then last night, the hotel fire alarm went off at 4am.... -Greg ---------------------------------------- >From jd224@cus.cam.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 09:07:15 1997 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:07:04 +0100 (BST) From: "J. Dubiel" To: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov Subject: Intensive RADIANCE course in the UK Status: R Here is news of a course being held soon in the UK: ************************************************************* STOP PRESS !! STOP PRESS !! RADIANCE - Intensive Course At the University of North London we have had many enquiries about how best to get started on the RADIANCE software and how to obtain the best results from simulations. Although user documentation exists, learning RADIANCE can be very daunting.=20 Undoubtedly the best way to learn is with the help of an experienced user. The LEARN unit at UNL has taken advantage of the presence of Raphael Compagnon in the UK (at the Martin Centre, Cambridge) to organise a 3-day course on RADIANCE. The course will be held at the Low Energy Architecture Research Unit (LEARN) from 1-3 July 1997. The course will give an overview of the RADIANCE software, with emphasis on points not covered in the user documentation. Many of the examples and exercises will be from the context of daylighting. The format of the tuition will be tutorial sessions interspersed with hands-on exercises. The material to be covered in the three days is listed below. Enough computers will be provided for all participants to make intensive use of the time (please state preference for PC or UNIX system) and additional tutors will be on hand for help with hands-on sessions. The course will be led by Raphael Compagnon, with other tutors including Jo Dubiel, John Solomon, Axel Jacobs and Aris Tsangrassoulis. Places are limited, so it is advisable to book early. The cost is =A3650 + VAT for all three days including lunch. To book or for further details, contact Mike Wilson, LEARN, SAID, UNL, Spring House, 6-40 Holloway Road, London N7 8JL Tel. 0171-753-7006 Fax 0171-753-5780 email M.Wilson@UNL.ac.uk You might also like to look at LEARN's WWW site: http://www.unl.ac.uk/LEARN/ ******************************************************* Material to be covered during the three-day course: > 1st day: >=20 > Introduction (e.g. how and where RADIANCE has been developed) > Physical basis > General structure of the software > Structure of a "scene" file > Model of a sky > Interactive visualisation using rview > Rendering a picture using rpict > Special projections using rtrace > Picture processing >=20 > 2nd day: >=20 > Model of a room daylighted by an anidolic lightshelf > How ray tracing works within RADIANCE > Illuminance calculations > False colour pictures > Assessing discomfort glare > A few words on textures and patterns > Automatisation of the rendering process using rad > RADIANCE distribution and user support >=20 > 3rd day: >=20 > Personal projects ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jo Dubiel jd224@cam.ac.uk The Martin Centre for Architectural and Urban Studies University of Cambridge 6 Chaucer Road Cambridge CB2 2EB UK Tel. 01223 - 331714 Fax. 01223 - 331701 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----------------------------- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE AVOID THE EVIL REPLY COMMAND, AND ADDRESS YOUR E-MAIL EXPLICITYLY! | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Radiance Discussion Group mailing list: radiance-discuss@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Mail requests to subscribe/cancel to: radiance-request@hobbes.lbl.gov | | Archives available from: ftp://hobbes.lbl.gov/pub/discuss | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+